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The Resurrection of Jesus
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The Resurrection of Jesus
The resurrection of Jesus is the cornerstone of Christian faith. If it didn't happen the Christianity is not true.
I could reproduce the length of at least a 200 page book to give evidence for this, but I won't. Actually I stopped posting here because I have more important life priorities that need my attention, and because I really don't think that an internet forum like this will change anyone's mind or life. If there will be no change I don't have interest in writing anything.
But this issue is so crucial that it deserves its own thread.
Off an on I occasionally skim some of the threads and there's lots that I disagree with. I just don't want to take the time to reply if won't really change anything. I disagree with much of what the non-believers say but also with some of what the Christians say.
I'm a follower of Jesus, so you know my bias. After knowing Him for 35 years and living in His grace I can't imagine what could make me change my beliefs, even though I've been through periods of intense doubt.
Sometimes the Christians on here are doing our cause a real disservice. I disagree with some of their logic and arguments, but some I believe too. I just wanted to go on record that not all Christians agree with all of the views that have been expressed here.
I'm not going to go into any detail to defend the resurrection. There's just too much information.
But I do want to briefly address Donovan's contention that the idea of the resurrection was invented ~30 years after Jesus died.
1) The book of Galatians was the 2nd book written ca. AD 49, or 16 years after Jesus died. The very first line claims that Jesus was raised from the dead.
2) From the very beginning Christians proclaimed that Jesus was raised from the dead; it was not invented 16 years after Jesus' died. Jesus first disciples proclaimed this and died for it. If there is any real evidence to support the claim that the story was just invented then please produce it. Mere conjecture or postulating theories about what
have happened is not evidence.
3) 1 Corinthians was written in AD 56. 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 is the most important passage for this discussion. It says "3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve." Without going into all of the details, you need to know that scholars have determined that this was an established creed that Paul received from others. This creed can also be traced back to 3-5 years after the death of Jesus. If you're really interested then go research whether this claim is plausible or not.
4) c.c. 34-35 AD The Apostle Paul changed from being an ardent enemy of Christians to it's greatest proponent. This was about 1-2 years after Jesus died. What changed him? Theories that contradict the account in the Bible aren't persuasive.
There's much more that could be said but I'll end here.
Very nice. Even if it took two years, it would be too long for me. I just can't believe something that amazing would not spread like wild fire. I still contend that anything like this could be faked. It can be done by slowing the heart down to where no pulse is detected or drugged, but either way he story still bugs me.
That story like the ark, was written by other faiths before christianity claimed it. I wish I had wrote some of them down, but one of the podcasts from The Atheist Experience listed them. Back then I checked 2 of them and both of those checked out, so I quit looking.
I also agree with almost everything else Olorin has pointed out. History, certainly has tons of flaws and conjecture. Which is another reason why this resurrection thing is even harder to swallow for me. Magic was impressive back then, more than it is now. A little magic went a long way to convince people. As a population, we just didn't know as much.
We now know ghosts, fortune telling, astrology, numerology, talking to the dead, magic, mind reading, telekinetic powers, and superstition are all not real. At least none of it is real so far. All the Egypttian raising of the dead and so forth, it was the same thing, no proof. If god(s) were real, they would make sure we knew they were there, especially if they felt the need to be worshipped as the christian god does. I just can't get passed god allowing his own son to be treated like that, or how world disasters happen that kill all races, religions, and faiths. If those happened and for some reason only a certain sect of a certain faith, seemed to be surviving, that might get me to question, but that NEVER happens. A tsunami does not just skip a person here or there, it gets everyone and everything in its path. No god is saving any select anyone. This is how I know none of this god stuff is real. No one is safe from natural disasters, because no god is really protecting anyone.
I will say this as well, I only really loathe those believers who do harm to others; I'll flat out hug the rest of you.
Even if it took two years, it would be too long for me.
All of the evidence we possess points to the belief in the resurrection starting 2 days after Jesus died.
At that time Israel was more of an oral culture, but there is clear evidence that were definitely written sources before the gospels. These were notes that people made. The book we have in our hands was compiled from these notes and eyewitness accounts later.
I base my belief on at least 5 points of evidence. These are facts that are agreed on by the majority of scholars, including skeptics.
1. Jesus died by crucifixion
2. The first followers believed that Jesus appeared
3. The conversion of Paul who was an enemy of Christians
4. The conversion of James, the skeptical brother of Jesus
5. The empty tomb of Jesus
To believe that the resurrection story is all made up is not plausible. It would take an unbelievable amount of coordination, and people died for believing it. There’s a ton of more evidence to support this that you could research.
I just can't believe something that amazing would not spread like wild fire.
But it did spread very rapidly, from the very beginning, even in the midst of great persecution. Many people died for their belief in the resurrection of Jesus.
If the resurrection did not happen, then what changed Jesus’ followers from people who were scared and hiding for their lives into people willing to die for what they believed?
If the resurrection did not happen, then what caused the Apostle Paul to convert a few years after Jesus died?
If the resurrection did not happen, then when did the idea really begin? And how? Then produce evidence to back up your claim. Just to raise conjecture that something could have happened is not evidence. People have claimed that Jesus was just an alien with great powers, but there has never been any evidence to support the idea. Christians at least have evidence for their faith that leads by inductive logic to the conclusion that Jesus was raised from the dead and He is God.
Ok, first off, there is no way I cane answer you second posts of questions due to the fact that I don't know any of those people nor do I pretend I can imagine what life was like in those times. People die for their faith all the time before and after this Jesus event. That is nothing special and nor does stand as any evidence of anything. Drink some poisonous Flavor-Ade or fly your plane into a building, it does not make your leader real or a god.
Of your five evidence listings: What you see are facts, I do not.
1. Many people named Jesus were killed on crosses as that was a very popular name of the time. Even if your Jesus was a real person and was crucified (and why xtians wear the symbol of his death is beyond me) so what? What does that prove? 2 other dudes were supposedly killed at the same time, where are there bodies? How do we know they were all actually dead when taken down? The questions go on forever.
2. Eye witness accounts of great feats really means nothing. They either saw someone walkout of a tomb, lied about it, or saw what they wanted to see, but none of those things mean someone rose from the dead. I have discussed the countless ways that is never going to be evidence on numerous threads.
3. People said such and such. Really? You need me list these? How about just a couple then. Liar, fame, get people to follow me by milking off someone else, the list goes on and on. You don't believe in Greek mythology why not. Not all stuff written is fact or real. History books are notorious fo this. The winners write history and you get their spin.
5. An empty tomb, means the bdoy is not there, so what tons of tombs were raided for years. Think of those Egyptians; that is a lot of gods running around.
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