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-   -   Rule 802.04 Part D (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102514)

SteezeOG 02-28-2014 12:24 AM

Rule 802.04 Part D
 
So I always thought I completely understood this but there are a few people at our indoor putting league who I'm not sure on and not sure on my own technique at times. I will ask you good people.

D: Putting: Any throw from within 10 meters of the target, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the target, is a putt. Supporting point contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the target.

It's the full control of balance aspect. When I take a stance I place my right foot behind my marker about an inch or two. Depending on distance or just a lot of factors I may or may not lift my left leg. I was under the impression that full control of balance meant you can't fall past your marker before the disc comes to rest in the basket. I didn't take it that if you lift that back leg it must stay off the ground until the disc comes to rest. I will occasionally drop the left leg back to the ground as it's coming in contact or on it's way but I never pass that marker.

If I were to do so I of course would agree to a falling putt, no balance, foot fault or whatever you wish to call it. Is simply lowering your left leg behind the marker before it comes to rest a foot fault? I always assumed the maintain balance was just not falling forward past your marked lie but a couple guys seem to think you must keep that leg raised if you come off the ground. Am I completely wrong? Do I either need to stay up on one leg like a flamingo until it comes to rest or should I just not be lifting it at all? Many times I do maintain that lifted leg and hold it, it's not an issue, but at times I also just kick it up and out a few inches and put it back down behind my lie. What's the ruling on that?

I want to be clear on it so I can adjust my technique if needed. I've never been called for a foot fault in a tournament but in league there are two guys who seem pretty confident in their interpretation of the rule. Either they are right or I'm going to shove the proper ruling down their throat next time I hear it. :D

LukeF 02-28-2014 12:43 AM

They sound ridiculous. Pretty sure you can dance a jig behind your marker if you want. It doesn't say "The player must demonstrate full control of balance in the exact position you were he was in when he released the disc." You just have to make it clear that it wasn't a falling or jump putt.

SteezeOG 02-28-2014 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeF (Post 2370992)
They sound ridiculous. Pretty sure you can dance a jig behind your marker if you want. It doesn't say "The player must demonstrate full control of balance in the exact position you were he was in when he released the disc." You just have to make it clear that it wasn't a falling or jump putt.

:thmbup: Thanks man. I'll let some others chime in but the next time I sink a putt and they get jealous and try to reinvent the rule I'm going to whip out my book. I just wish it was worded more clearly. That maintain balance part I think confuses a lot of people and they think you have to keep that foot up like a ballerina. I'm just not that graceful all the time lol.

Improbably 02-28-2014 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeF (Post 2370992)
They sound ridiculous.

I agree. My understanding is one may even demonstrate a lack of balance if one then proceeds to demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the target.

mashnut 02-28-2014 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improbably (Post 2371003)
I agree. My understanding is one may even demonstrate a lack of balance if one then proceeds to demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the target.

Yup, you can fall backwards then roll around as long as you don't advance toward the target.

scarpfish 02-28-2014 03:17 AM

To me, this is one of those ambiguous passages in the rulebook that needs to be clarified better.

Speaking personally, your non-plant foot coming down behind the marker is good enough to demonstrate "full control of balance", well unless you're limping around or something. What happens to your disc is meaningless.

DiscJunkie 02-28-2014 04:00 AM

Chuck Kennedy has a video on this subject on the PDGA website.
Quite good at explaining the point.
It's under the rules section, I believe.

JC17393 02-28-2014 07:28 AM

Misconception #1: waiting until the disc comes to rest.

It doesn't matter what the disc does. The rule never mentions the disc. You could throw your putt 60 feet in the air, establish full control of balance, and then run up to the basket to be standing next to it when the disc comes down and be perfectly legal.

Misconception #2: having to maintain balance.

The rule doesn't say anything about maintaining balance. It only says "the player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing". Demonstrate does not equal maintain. One can become completely unbalanced during or after the act of throwing provided they do not make contact with the playing surface between the rear edge of the marker and the target. So long as full control of balance is (re)established before any advancement occurs, the player is perfectly legal.


The only possibly ambiguous thing in the rule is the definition of "balance", but I think that is intentional since everyone has a fairly good idea of what balanced looks like and judging it comes down to having to see what happens live in the moment. The rest of the rule, as written, is clear cut. The misunderstanding and misinterpreting of it most often comes from people who learn the rule by word of mouth rather than actually looking at the printed text.

SteezeOG 02-28-2014 07:42 AM

Appreciate the input from everyone. I'm going to look for that video. I do think it's been something that kind of gets it's own twist by certain players looking to call a cheap foul on made putts of opponents. The fact I haven't been called out in a tournament made me think I was in full compliance but I wanted to make sure. Knew this was the place to ask. Not sure where I got the coming to rest. I was just always told that I guess. So when is it ok to start advancing inside the circle? Anytime after you've established that balance and released the disc?

Horsman 02-28-2014 07:45 AM

^^^^ Pretty much spot on. The disc coming to rest has nothing to do with it. If you putt and you sink you putt yet you are struggling to maintain balance and 5 seconds after you make it you haven't gotten control and you fall forward. That would be considered a falling putt and illegal. And the easiest way to think about maintaining balance is just do not go in front of your lie until you have full control of your body. Tell those people in your league that they are idiots.


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