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-   -   Multiple Tees (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81341)

Sadjo 01-31-2013 10:42 AM

Multiple Tees
 
I thought I would start this thread to continue the discussion on use of multiple tees. We kind of hijacked the 'Par 3" thread with the issue of tees.

I had expressed that I think when designing a course in most cases, whether or not in a community with a lot of courses, having two sets of tees so more seasoned players can enjoy the challenge while newer players can still enjoy the course is the best way to go. Not everyone agreed.

One of the examples was Nevin in Charlotte. A challenging course that is not as welcoming to new players as it could be. While I think a shorter set of tees would be well received, others think there isn't any reason to add new tees because of other courses close by in Charlotte offer courses that better cater to newer players.

Thoughts?

Cgkdisc 01-31-2013 10:53 AM

There are some shorter tees on Nevin but not a full set. I see Nevin as similar to Kaposia in the Twin Cities which doesn't have a shorter set of tees. As much as I support and usually design two sets of tees, I haven't pushed for a shorter set there because it's not a course I would want to take beginners even though (foolishly) players take people there for their first ever DG experience perhaps to show off. But it may be counterproductive as they pinball around the forest.

There are enough shorter courses in Charlotte and the Twin Cities that the championship heavily wooded courses shouldn't be held to a 2-tee guideline. It's the more open championship courses where having a shorter set of tees is desirable since newbies have a better chance to make it around that terrain even spraying shots.

Sadjo 01-31-2013 11:11 AM

While I understand that stand, and at one time would've agreed, now that I play a majority of my Disc Golf rounds with my kids, I really see this as a need.

My two youngest both play in the under 10 division but can walk the longest courses in our area. They're just not long enough off of the tee for a course like Nevin or Kaposia.

Another reason why is for someone who is just getting into the sport that lives in South Saint Paul would most likely pick Kaposia as their regular course. They should have the option to have short tees.

AdamE 01-31-2013 11:13 AM

In my area I see very very few people using short tees, even though a short tee might be more appropriate for their skill level. Challenging yourself is a great way to make you a better player, but when the short tee still provides a substantial challenge it seems more like peoples attitudes is that they don't use them because they're the "girls" tee. Calling them red and blue tees rather than long and short doesn't seem to help much.

So in my opinion, having two tees is important for challenging holes because you don't want to turn off new players to the sport. But on the other hand they get used so infrequently I only want to install them when the holes is really difficult.

superberry 01-31-2013 11:33 AM

In all my designs I make it a point to lay out a set of RED tees for newcomers, beginners, single-time players, and amateurs. If the course is in the city I view these shorter tees as an absolute must. In a rural remote disc golf destination course, they're a little less needed and may be less developed like just a flattened natural area to use for a tee so that kids, spouses, etc tagging along can still enjoy the game with less frustration.

My designs center around a BLUE tee design with a somewhat high SSA due to mostly 'Tough Par 3' hole designs. I try to design a true specific challenge per hole for high Advanced Am level and low Pro rated players. This equates to Blue tees most of the time. From there I find a closer and less difficult area to install a Red tee. In an ideal situation with unlimited land use and interference issues, I'd leave room for Gold Tees. I'd equate my Gold tee design to being Par 4 holes for Blue level players.

From what I've had to work with, and utilizing key features of the property and terrain, Gold tees are not always viable on every hole. On a typical course design I'd lay out 18 Blue tees for true challenge for skilled players to keep them wanting to come back and make them work on variety and balance in their game, I'd install 18 Red tees in less difficult locations to avoid the tightly wooded and strategic OB/rough zones I try and incorporate which can be frustrating holes for lower skilled players, and I'd try to lay out about 9 Gold (or Black) tees in strategic locations on holes with a natural layout or feature I wish to incorporate.

In the ULTIMATE course I'd have at least the Blue and Red Tees along with two permanent pins, one being primary and the secondary being longer and much more risky/precarious placement. What this equates to is a 4 course layout for an entire variety of skills...

Short tee to short pin = Red
Short tee to long pin = White
Long tee to short pin = Blue
Long tee to long pin = Gold/Black

Mando 01-31-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadjo (Post 1821132)

One of the examples was Nevin in Charlotte. A challenging course that is not as welcoming to new players as it could be. While I think a shorter set of tees would be well received, others think there isn't any reason to add new tees because of other courses close by in Charlotte offer courses that better cater to newer players.

Thoughts?

I don't think every course needs to cater to all skill levels. I would be fine with one set of pads at Nevin and Renny, because they are unique in their length and difficulty. Why dilute the intended experience ? With all the ongoing projects in Charlotte, the time and money could be better spent elsewhere.

It would be interesting to compare the traffic on the courses in Charlotte. When I played Nevin on a nice sunday, only 3 other groups were on the course. Then I played Hornets Nest and it was packed.

DavidSauls 01-31-2013 11:59 AM

It helps to have multiple tees incorporated into the original design. I've seen some pretty poor jobs of courses retrofitted with shorter or longer tees. Besides just creating poor holes, some have a short tee that requires a walk past the long tee---so to play the shorts, you have to walk the same distance as if you'd played the longs.

At Stoney Hill (single tee, with one exception), the terrain has left many of the holes without a suitable place for a shorter tee. At least, not without needing some major construction projects. But pressure from our resident 5-year-old disc golfer is going to compel us to create some.

BogeyNoMore 01-31-2013 12:13 PM

I'm all for multiple tees if they can be well executed. I like the idea of making a course more playable to a wider range of players. I'm only half convinced that changing the distance alone accomplishes this well. Just because someone can throw farther doesn't necessarily mean they're better. Sometimes, it's better achieved by placing and additional tee to create an easier or tougher line to hit.

If it's a fairly open hole, I don't think you need a shorter Am tee unless the Pro tee is really long (say 500+ feet)... then maybe put a shorter 300'-350' tee. But having a 350 and 250 doesn't make sense unless it eliminates or changes several obstacles.

Exception to what I said are holes where the distance comes with high risk of disc loss (long water carries and such). Ams will probably lose enough plastic without any help from enthusiastic course designers.
Accomodating beginners means providing reasonably safe alternatives to the "Pro" tees.

LetsPlayGolf 01-31-2013 03:46 PM

Thanks for starting a new thread. I wanted to weigh in on this on the Par 3 thread, but did not want to hijack it even more.

If you checkout the homepage on my website http://www.discsideofheaven.com I address this whole argument. I am about to open two courses at one location. One is a Rec Course with Blue, White, Red and Green tees and the other is a Championship Course with Gold, Blue and White. From a ball golf background, I have played all sorts of courses from all different tees. I believe if an area does not have a wide selection of courses to choose from, the ones they do have should offer a wide selection of tees.

Also, having a 5 year old and 7 year old - I am getting pressure for shorter holes as well. My 'Green' tees are going to be nothing more than a green stake in the ground, similar to what you would see at nice ball golf courses. They have a 'Jr' marker cemented into the cart path where the kids just drop their ball and play the hole from there. I also have the luxury of having nearly 80 acres to work with so I can design each tee area into each hole.

I have also developed a tee chart that I am going to have at the clubhouse and I am going to encourage everyone to look at before they play. I will try to upload that here to give everyone an idea.

If a big city has several courses to accommodate all skill levels then great! But if not, I believe we should try to accommodate all skill levels at one or two courses so people can learn and grow with the course.

Here is the map of the Rec Course.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/...psceafa01c.jpg

LetsPlayGolf 01-31-2013 03:58 PM

Here is the Tee Level sign that will be posted at the clubhouse:

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/...ps98c650d6.jpg


Sorry, don't know how to make it smaller...


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