Ok i put this in technique and strategy because it could be a technique issue of mine or if not then it can be used strategically. Ok basically i have an observation i made about one of my discs and I'm not sure if I'm just dreaming it up or if its a valid observation. The disc is a pro vulcan 167 in newer shape. i know the vulcan is an interesting disc some people hate them for some reason. Ok so im throwing a forehand hyzer flip and even though this is a 13 speed disc i cant put anything more than about 70-75% on it or it looks like a fighter jet that just got shot down. my little pic is what happens when i go 100 percent on it. If i get that hyzer angle just right and go 75% on it as its flipping up it will actually produce a significant amount of lift and hold its hyzer for a little longer then normal after that it will finish out its flight like any other disc i hyzer flip.(only a lot further) My theory is that the greater angle of hyzer on the release causes the wing to fight with gravity and basically just lifts the disc in the air instead of flipping up at the beginning. what exactly is going on here? is that just how the vulcan flys or will they all do this and its just easier to do with the vulcan? I can throw this and other discs flatter in fact im really consistent at throwing flat hyzer flips. The first time i did this i over shot the hole by a good 100 feet which put it around 400-425 feet. My furthest drive to date. anyone else notice this about the vulcan?
02-02-2013 01:52 AM
Good luck doing that consistently. Even though it's "speed 13", it doesn't mean you can throw it 100% power. It's fairly understable and very nose angle sensitive.
02-02-2013 02:34 AM
yeah ive replicated it a few times. ive also blown the throw more than ive hit it. i will keep practicing though. Im really wondering what is actually going on here? Maybe that will help me be able to hit it when i want. Are you saying im releasing it with the nose high? Could be for sure but its only when i throw it 75% and i push the hyzer as far as i can that i get that drastic lift effect. Otherwise she flies with limited lift on the flip and between i would say 8 and 15 feet off the ground. When i hit that other throw sometimes that thing will be 25 feet up there.
02-02-2013 02:45 AM
my guess is that you're air bouncing with nose up. the understability (and some oat (forehand)) of the disc should mask some of it's intention to hyzer out.
i used to do this with a valkyrie.
02-02-2013 02:47 AM
Is this the only speed 13 that you hyzerflip? What other discs do you hyzerflip flat? In my experience hyzerflips rise by themselves and the higher speed discs tend to be more nose and angle sensitive. Are you finishing on your heels? Is all your weight on your pivot foot when you are done driving? A lot of variables here. Unless you can describe your shot technique in every possible detail a video of you throwing this disc the way you describe would be the surefire way to find out what's happening. Don't need to see the disc hzyer out just need to see how you throw it.
02-02-2013 03:27 AM
Nose up...nothing to do with the Vulcan (sorry!). If intentional [like OAT] it can actually be utilized very well, it's just a matter of knowing/learning what it is you're trying to do and what you're actually accomplishing. More importantly, why you're doing it (intentional nose up or OAT).
^^intentional OAT is more often than not used for recovery shots, by the way.
02-02-2013 03:32 AM
I dont really try to hyzer flip any of my other speed 13 discs. I can hyzer flip my star destroyer flat though. (12)Dont get me wrong all of my hyzer flips rise a little. None of them are truely flat. When i flip my valkyrie its very very flat though. My stingray flips quiet nicely as well. Even an aviar when im messing around. I will get a video up i actually took some for the purpose of putting on this site so i could have my form critiqued. i just got to go through it. But i can say i finish my throws on my Toes and my right leg isnt even on the ground when im releasing. Also for the hyzer flip my release point is low. I couldnt say how low for sure but im thinkin waist or lower. I kind of bend my upper body over the disc. i dont really buy into the whole keeping your elbow tight either(on drives)my throw is more like a sidearm baseball pitcher. I really really focus on wrist snap too. Could someone explain this "air bouncing" to me because bouncing kind of decribes what the disc does and that is probably what im doing. Thanks for the help everyone i will get a video up in a few days.
02-02-2013 03:45 AM
Easier to see with a lid: (ninjaEDIT: it's supposed to start at 50 seconds..wtfff)
02-02-2013 03:46 AM
I forgot to mention, when i was teaching myself to hyzer flip i would apply OAT as a way to "cheat" even though i knew it wasnt quiet right. I dont really feel i do that anymore though. I wont have a video till tomorrow.
02-03-2013 12:01 AM
believe it or not but the fact that you are throwing like a sidearm pitcher is probably the source of all your problems. You are applying a ton of OAT and compensating by starting with a huge hyzer. If you tuck the elbow and and learn to snap with your wrist you won't have these problems. basically you learned a bad habit and now you have to unlearn it to fix your problem. Can you forehand a buzz on a flat plane with no hyzer? If the answer is no then you confirmed the problem.
Wanted to mention that without tucking your elbow you are definitely opening yourself up for injuries in the future.