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ScottyLove 04-28-2013 02:08 PM

Round ratings for split tournament...
 
Question for Chuck or any other ratings guru:

Because of the sloppy weather, rough terrain, and wanting to get the rounds completely in a timely manner, the field was split in half so that part of the field played the North course first while the other half played the South course. After lunch break, we switched of course... so in the end, all players played both courses. The conditions were the same for both rounds... very little wind, rainy, and miserable to say the least.

My question is... I thought that a the same score on the same course would be rated the same. So why would a 62 round on the North course in the morning be rated 889 but in the afternoon be a 907?

Perhaps this will be fixed later as it seems every tournament I play in has post tournament adjustments... or is there some other factor that I'm not aware of like who you're playing with during that round at work here? Maybe the TD failed to note the course difference in the results? I don't think this is it, because I can see that a 62 on the South course in the morning was a 951.

Just curious...

DavidSauls 04-28-2013 03:28 PM

I assume you're referring to unofficial ratings. If so, each round is rated separately, and reflect a bit of variability in a single round. Just as, with 4 rounds on the same course and same layout, you can get somewhat different unofficial ratings.

Unless there were weather differences, these seem to be averaged out to match when the official ratings are done.

BogeyNoMore 04-28-2013 04:55 PM

I think the round ratings "take conditions into account" by looking the the scores propogators carded for each round as a whole. Obviously, the scoring the same on agiven course in quite windy conditions and perfect conditions should be rated differently, as they present different challenges.


So while I don't believe the PDGA factors conditions into ratings directly, they're are captured indirectly, by establishing the ratings based on known propogators.

ejvogie 04-28-2013 06:06 PM

It all depends on how all the rated people shot and what their ratings were.

ScottyLove 04-28-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejvogie (Post 1970445)
It all depends on how all the rated people shot and what their ratings were.

I'm very aware of how the ratings work... I'm a propagator myself.

I still am trying to find out why two rounds of the same score on the same course on the same day in the same conditions would be rated differently.

ScottyLove 04-28-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 1970292)
Unless there were weather differences, these seem to be averaged out to match when the official ratings are done.

I'm hoping this is the correct answer and makes the most sense... sort of.

I saw a big change in a tournament I played in early April between the unofficial and official ratings.

jeverett 04-28-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyLove (Post 1970490)
I'm hoping this is the correct answer and makes the most sense... sort of.

I saw a big change in a tournament I played in early April between the unofficial and official ratings.

In between Unofficial and Official round reporting, players who's round scores are >100 points below their rating are thrown out for purposes of determining the SSA (which is determined using linear regression). So the SSA will typically creep up very slightly between Unofficial and Official round reporting, having the effect of both increasing round ratings and decreasing the interval of rating-points-per-throw-difference. Does that help?

DavidSauls 04-28-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyLove (Post 1970485)
I'm very aware of how the ratings work... I'm a propagator myself.

I still am trying to find out why two rounds of the same score on the same course on the same day in the same conditions would be rated differently.

I think it's the small sample of a single round. The same reason the same event, playing 1 course twice on the same day, may produce slightly different results. I think I've read that the variation can be as much as 20 points, though it's generally much less.

joshmo65 04-28-2013 09:32 PM

Unofficial ratings take each round separately when calculating the rating. Once the tournament goes official, and as long as the SSAs are fairly close, then all rounds will be averaged together to get the same ratings for the same scores.

scarpfish 04-29-2013 02:51 AM

Even with all other factors being equal, unofficial round ratings have always been known to be off from one round to the next. In all honesty though, conditions for any given tourney day are never the same in the morning and afternoon. Warming temperatures, or a 5 MPH up/down tick or directional change in the wind can have an affect on scores.

I honestly wish that they didn't average the rounds when they make results official. Seeing that slight difference helps paint the snapshot of what went on that day.


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