Ok. I am not trying to fan the flames but I admittedly do throw with a little hyzer. This is why I prefer discs that have a little high speed turn. For example I like Eagles over Teebirds for this reason. Which is probably why I like the Shock. About 4-5 years ago I started reading these forums and came to the realization that I had a OAT problem. Since then I began a long road of breaking bad habits. Throwing with a slight hyzer helped me with obtaining consistency in my release. It is probably not the best way but it improved my game immensely.