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Old 03-28-2013, 05:04 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Years Playing: 20.2
Courses Played: 366
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 4,346
I wish I had become a aeronautical engineer rather than electrical....or had the passion to learn like I did back in the day. I admittedly have a ton to learn if I wanted to about aerodynamics (and some aspects physics too).....but I do know this: there a variety of forces acting on a disc as it flys....and those forces are are changing on their own and in relation to each other as the velocity, rotation speeds, smoothness of the material, density of the air, angles, etc change. Very complex and fascinating!

Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
Throwing an anhyzer is totally different than a disc turning and burning from a hyzer. People with OAT problems will flip discs from a hyzer angle that would normally cause the disc not to flilp. So they can't possibly be both throwing hyzer and anhyzer, there must be some other force that's causing the disc to flip.
This sounds convincing, but I would like to see video evidence of this. I suspect that possibly what is happening is their pull through is a hyzer, but their release is actually anyhzer.....and little had to do with actual rotation of the disc along its front-to-back axis. Again, I am open to being wrong......I am a total neophyte as a student of throwing mechanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
That's an argument for OAT being the problem. Notice how wide rimmed discs resist OAT way more than narrow rimmed discs. It's becasue of their greater angular momentum. If it were only a release angle issue then wide rimmed discs wouldn't resist the problem we're describing more than narrow rimmed discs.
But, assuming the that flight plates are the same weight, wouldn't a narrow rim disc have more angular momentum since the rim weight is concentrated closer to the edge of the disc (a smaller cross-section triangle)?

I suspect the wider rims provide more stability due to the aerodynamics of a wider wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
The angular momentum of the disc is why the discs don't tumble end over end becasue of OAT, but that doesn't mean that it's so high that we can't overcome it. How can we be strong enough to get the disc to spin but not strong enough to make the disc turn at all? At science centers they have a spinning wheel much larger and heavier than a disc that little children are strong enough to force off axis. It's harder to force off-axis than a non spinning wheel, which is what the demonstration shows, but they can still do it. In the case of a disc we have a much, much lighter object with a much smaller radius and we are much stronger than little children.
I don't know. I am pretty sure that the aerodynamics have a lot to do with it. Taking the affects of air away by seeing a disc thrown in a vacuum would be interesting.....and not just because the thrower would explode

Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
Based on that it's a very valid hypothesis that we might be able to change the flight of a disc using OAT. It's also been tested many thousands of times over by people who bought discs that were too fast for them and then ended up not being able to throw putters and mids because they turned over too hard no matter how much hyzer they put on them. Not to mention all of the experienced players who use OAT to shape shots. There is no evidence that we can not produce enough OAT to change the flight of a disc and countless throws that are evidence that we can.
ditto to my response on the first quote. Add to that the speed at which a disc is thrown has a ton to do with how much it flips.....and how quickly the overstable nature of the disc puts it into its slow speed fade.
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