#51  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:42 AM
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notroman notroman is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
I think some divisions might play the full Red. But I think Brian is going to look at possibilities for creative routing with a blue-red combo for Open if it can be worked into the schedule. I think Blue has some of the better open holes than Red and Red has some of the better technical holes than Blue. Lots of planning and testing ahead.
That's awesome. The courses flow well enough together that you can totally do that. When I visit Lemon Lake with friends we usually play Red, then continue to Blue until hole 13, then instead of playing 14 we start on Silver (or Gold) 1, play that course, then continue on Blue 14 until the end. It makes for a great loop.
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  #52  
Old 06-19-2012, 12:37 PM
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the_lung the_lung is offline
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As Director of Scoring for every Pro Worlds and combined Pro/Am Worlds since 2007, I am extremely excited about returning to Lemon Lake Park and Crown Point, Indiana. My experience at PDGA Worlds is typically confined to processing scores in a "bunker" conference room at the host hotel for practically the entire week, making it out to the courses only during the Semifinals and Finals on the last day. In 2010 I had the very pleasant experience of working in close proximity with the Lemon Lake Park staff all week long and got an inside look at what goes into maintaining a large county park. This park service crew was practically at our disposal the entire week, and the great job they did and the level to which they were dedicated to make that Worlds a truly professional experience cannot be overstated. When all is said and done, what I almost always remember most about PDGA Worlds is the people, and while I worked with some great, great folks in Santa Cruz, Kansas City, Kalamazoo, and Highbridge, the 2010 tournament staff of TD Brian Cummings, assistant TD Jay Svitko, the course TDs, the local club members, and the entire park staff were all laid-back folks who took everything in stride and addressed the inevitable glitches which popped up with calm and cool responses, and were a great joy to work with!

We've been really spoiled with top-notch courses the last few years. The Highbridge Gold course is still my favorite of all time, and the other finished courses (Blueberry Hill, Granite Ridge) were excellent as well. Kalamazoo had Timber Ridge, which was a very good ski hill course and made for possibly one of the best Final 9 venues; the last hole playing down to the basket in front of the lodge and the gallery was surely the greatest finishing hole ever at a PDGA World Championships. KC had WaterWorks, Cliff Drive, WyCo, and the awesome Blue Valley course whose thrilling playoff I never wanted to see end, and last year we had the world reknowned DeLaveaga. In 2010 we had the Lemon Lake Gold course which instantly became one of my top 20 courses played lifetime, which is now 17 years and 200+ courses. I didn't get to play the Red Hawk course until late in the week, but I loved it as well - it's got tight but fair woods, some nice rolling elevation changes, and some teeth to finish the course - 3 out of the last 5 holes are pro par four holes where a birdie 3 requires both accuracy and distance. I was able to 3 the downhill hole#14 but never could put consecutive shots together to take better than a (par) 4 on holes#17 and 18. Feldberg said the Red course was his favorite at Worlds, and I am almost inclined to agree with him, as other than the curious 90 degree dogleg right 7th, I thought every other hole was a gem. I surely don't understand why some competitors thought this course was anything less than superb.

The Blue course on the other hand was imo the most "blah" one on the property, and I do hope that some revisions are made for next year's competition. It's hard to argue that Eric McCabe's Open title was won in large part by posting a 42 on this course in Round 6, and Steve Rico had a 41 on the par 58 layout. That shouldn't happen in a PDGA Pro Worlds competition.

Some other much needed improvements should be far, far more spotters on the Gold course starting at hole#3, and better communication with the course marshal who is sending off groups at the tee of hole#1. If backups start to occur, the marshal needs to delay sending off groups on hole#1 until the backup alleviates and subsides. We really need to avoid marathon 5+ hour rounds on the Gold course, which one former Open world champion blamed on 8-minute tee times and who confronted me in an extremely agitated state about. I was basically told "that I lost that year's Worlds" for him. The Gold course should also be reserved for Open, Masters, and Grandmasters only - Senior Legends, Legends, and Senior Grandmasters really shouldn't be out on the Gold course at all, even in its Silver course configuration.

Chuck Kennedy also assured me that the cell tower infrastructure and cell phone coverage near the park has improved dramatically, which was a HUGE problem in 2010. Despite being less than one hour from Chicago, Lemon Lake was a dead zone for major cell phone carriers. It seemed like unless you had T-Mobile, you got next to zero coverage almost everywhere in the park. Early in the week, event staff attempted to provide live photos and live commentary but this activity usually just resulted in barely anything going thru and a cell phone battery that drained in record time. It's a relief to hear that things will be much improved in that department.

I'm definitely looking forward to returning to a familiar place and familiar faces. I can't wait to hit up that Mexican restaurant over in Cedar Lake again, Crown Brewing in Crown Point, and Three Floyds Brewing over in Munster, which is one of the top craft brewers in the world. Yeehaw!
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  #53  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:04 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Coming to Charlotte Jeff?

Renny Gold is quite the experience, if so.
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  #54  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:14 PM
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cmchavis cmchavis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lung View Post
I am extremely excited about returning to Lemon Lake Park and Crown Point, Indiana.

...

I'm definitely looking forward to returning to a familiar place and familiar faces. I can't wait to hit up that Mexican restaurant over in Cedar Lake again, Crown Brewing in Crown Point, and Three Floyds Brewing over in Munster, which is one of the top craft brewers in the world. Yeehaw!
I missed the 2010 Pro Worlds - I am glad they are coming back soon. Also, thanks for reminding me of some of the other reasons why living around here isn't as bad as it seems sometimes.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:25 PM
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the_lung the_lung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Coming to Charlotte Jeff?
I'll see you next month, Robert!

Rennaisance Park has been a HUGE void in my course resume which I can't wait to rectify in just a few weeks. I was in Charlotte in 1999 (playing Hornet's Nest, Kilborne, Winthrop, etc.) but before Renny opened and this will be my first time back in town. CAN'T WAIT!!!
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  #56  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:29 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lung View Post
I'll see you next month, Robert!

Rennaisance Park has been a HUGE void in my course resume which I can't wait to rectify in just a few weeks. I was in Charlotte in 1999 (playing Hornet's Nest, Kilborne, Winthrop, etc.) but before Renny opened and this will be my first time back in town. CAN'T WAIT!!!
I'll be on the PDGA side of things, so I'm sure we will have a meal / meeting together at some point. Haven't seen you since PW2007 - been a while.

And yeah, Renny is an experience. Too bad they are dumbing it down for worlds (I understand why, however). But the three holes they are shortening make a HUUUUGE difference in the course. They took three par 4's and made then par 3's - one of which is the hardest par 4 I've ever seen. I would bet the course plays 3.5 strokes easier with these 3 changes.
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  #57  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:31 PM
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grodney grodney is offline
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Originally Posted by the_lung View Post
Some other much needed improvements should be far, far more spotters on the Gold course starting at hole#3
Jeff, you need more TIMERS, not more SPOTTERS. Having spotters just bails out pros with no brains who just want to throw as far as they can. Tell them to throw it in the damn fairway if they don't want to risk a lost disc.
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  #58  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:32 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grodney View Post
Jeff, you need more TIMERS, not more SPOTTERS. Having spotters just bails out pros with no brains who just want to throw as far as they can. Tell them to throw it in the damn fairway if they don't want to risk a lost disc.
You know there is such thing as physical errors even on the professional level, right?
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  #59  
Old 06-19-2012, 02:51 PM
Captain Plastic Captain Plastic is offline
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Renny Worlds layout is easier for sure. The couple of holes they shortened on the front
side went from bogeys to birdie opportunity for players like me.

The hole that winds up the creek is WAY easier now.

Either way can't wait to get there and play Charlotte disc golf.
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  #60  
Old 06-19-2012, 03:11 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Plastic View Post
Renny Worlds layout is easier for sure. The couple of holes they shortened on the front
side went from bogeys to birdie opportunity for players like me.

The hole that winds up the creek is WAY easier now.

Either way can't wait to get there and play Charlotte disc golf.
Yes, hole 4. Hardest par 4 I've ever seen - 4 is good there and I would suspect the hole has a 4.6 average. 3's truly feel like eagles. It is now an easier par 3 where I expect an average of 2.8.

5 is from the shorts - it's not that hard of a par 4, but the change is probably 3.7 to 3.0.

And 14 goes from an easier par 4 to a tougher par 3. I would guess it was 3.4 and is now 3.2.
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