#331  
Old 10-06-2012, 09:26 AM
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notBOB notBOB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashiellx View Post
And 50 meters? That would be over 160 feet, how could anyone conceivably think that's a putt?
i start putting from 500 ft
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  #332  
Old 10-06-2012, 11:52 PM
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dscmn dscmn is offline
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A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

What about just adding "clearly" to each of the above parts of the rule?

I'm thinking this would effectively put the onus on the jump putter (where I believe it belongs) to perform the putt in such a way that makes it completely and obviously legal to his card mates. The grey area putts would become stance violations. If it's too close to call, it's a stance violation.

In addition, I'd add jump putting without stating one's intention to do so subject to the courtesy violation rule. Just list it in the rule. That way, one's card mates are informed ahead of time and can watch more closely.
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  #333  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:22 AM
DonCasper DonCasper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscmn View Post
What about just adding "clearly" to each of the above parts of the rule?

I'm thinking this would effectively put the onus on the jump putter (where I believe it belongs) to perform the putt in such a way that makes it completely and obviously legal to his card mates. The grey area putts would become stance violations. If it's too close to call, it's a stance violation.
I agree with everything, except for maybe the calling your shot part. I think I'd get sick of hearing someone go "I'm going to jump putt" and having to respond "I already know you suck the fun out of the sport."
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  #334  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:13 AM
JoakimBL JoakimBL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Scales View Post
That's a fun way to mess with people's head. You can see them salivating to call a foot fault.
Well, if that was the case, this discussion would be mute. Part of the problem is that players are reluctant to call even obvious foot faults.
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  #335  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:27 AM
JoakimBL JoakimBL is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Ensor View Post
One more thing; it's been mentioned that 'the' problem is that players don't know the rules. And that is our fault.
We introduce our friends to the game, hand them a disc, and maybe teach them the fun stuff, like throwing a disc. Then they line up to an approach a couple feet away from the tree-line their disc is sitting in, and we figure it's too much of a bother to tell them the rules. Normalizing the action by telling ourselves that only douchebags teach people the rules that make their sport fun.
[...]
Jump-putts are the hack-a-Shaq of disc golf. Counting on the social norm to prevent onlookers from holding you to the rules you're playing by. Counting on disc golfers to gasp in disbelief that someone dared to mention that you've just cheated the entire field of competition. It depresses me immensely.
I agree to some extent on the first point quoted. But only to the extent, that when introducing people to disc golf, it's more important to show new players that it's a fun hobby. When they want to take the hobby further and call it a sport, players should also take responsibility for them selves to know and understand the rules.

I disagree with the second point. I don't think that the majority of jump putters who break the rules do it knowingly. In casual play, players may not even know the rules and in tournament play, that might still be the case, but for the most part I think players believe they are executing legal putts. That also explains why some get angry when you point out foot faults.

I still haven't read a proper argument for why the borderline putts are a big enough issue to warrant rule changes. It's not like people jump 5 feet in front of their lie and then takes the putt. That would be easy to call.
Why is it such a problem for some people that this is a judgement call, that sometimes is to close to call? We also have judgement calls on where a disc went out of bounds or if it cross inbounds before ending out OB. These calls can have a huge impact on the lie, and if in doubt, benefit goes to the player. How is jump putts any different?
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  #336  
Old 10-07-2012, 07:28 AM
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Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
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Quote:
We also have judgement calls on where a disc went out of bounds or if it cross inbounds before ending out OB. These calls can have a huge impact on the lie, and if in doubt, benefit goes to the player. How is jump putts any different?
No one throws OB to try and get an advantage. No one intentionally throws OB. There are a lot of differences.

It really is simple, stay behind the marker at all times. Easy as pie.
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  #337  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:02 AM
JoakimBL JoakimBL is offline
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Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
No one throws OB to try and get an advantage. No one intentionally throws OB. There are a lot of differences.

It really is simple, stay behind the marker at all times. Easy as pie.
Well that is not true. People rutinely throw over OB to get an advantage, but that is hardly the point I'm making.
But to understand what you are saying, you want to ban all follow throughs?
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  #338  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoakimBL View Post
Well that is not true. People rutinely throw over OB to get an advantage, but that is hardly the point I'm making.
But to understand what you are saying, you want to ban all follow throughs?
Nope, everything any golfer does now that takes them beyond their marker before they release the disc can still be done just start one step back. All supporting points, or potential supporting points must be behind the marker when the disc is released. Even if they are in the air, as long as it's behind the marker and they land behind the marker after release if they're jump putting.


As far as OB, you first said "if it cross inbounds before ending out OB" now you are saying throwing "over" OB. Again, there's a difference. Which one do you want to discuss?
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  #339  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:30 AM
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kevinmzane kevinmzane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
Nope, everything any golfer does now that takes them beyond their marker before they release the disc can still be done just start one step back. All supporting points, or potential supporting points must be behind the marker when the disc is released. Even if they are in the air, as long as it's behind the marker and they land behind the marker after release if they're jump putting.


As far as OB, you first said "if it cross inbounds before ending out OB" now you are saying throwing "over" OB. Again, there's a difference. Which one do you want to discuss?
So let me get this straight....You think we should be able to jump into the air and throw over top of objects in front of us?
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  #340  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinmzane View Post
So let me get this straight....You think we should be able to jump into the air and throw over top of objects in front of us?
What?

Where did I say about throwing over anything?

Have you seen the title of this thread?
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