#71  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:47 PM
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rd.bittle rd.bittle is offline
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Wahhh. Anybody better than me is obviously bagging. If I'm not the meaning of rec player, what is? Since I'm the posterboy for rec/beginner, anyone better is bagging.
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  #72  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:51 PM
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iacas iacas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The USGA handicapping system only uses your best 10 scores out of your most recent 20 versus PDGA ratings which essentially uses your best 49 rounds out of current 50.
So? You can obviously adjust for that just the same way that you'll be adjusting for the fact that a USGA handicap index is "6.7" while a PDGA rating is "893". I'm just saying a chart LIKE that could be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
You will shoot more than 30 rating points better than your rating 1 in 6 rounds.
Okay, so then a differential of 30 gets 5:1 odds.

Maybe a differential of 50 gets 20:1 odds. Maybe anything beyond 1000:1 odds bumps you up a level or puts a mark on your rating or something?

I still think a similar approach could work. No?
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  #73  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:01 PM
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BENFTS BENFTS is offline
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Originally Posted by BENFTS View Post
I still donít like the fact that you can't play in a local major with the big dogs unless your current and passed the officials exam. I wanted to play the Masters Cup last year in Santa Cruz but couldnít because of this. If a TD can pick your division based on his opinion why cant I pay to play with the big dogs without a rating?
Im aware I just dont like it and went on a rant. I just happen to play De La very well and would like to compete in the NT without all the red tape.

End Rant\
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  #74  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:10 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Handicapping is a different animal. The reason ball golf has the "bagger" chart is players cheat on handicaps because scores are self reported and not based only from tournament scores like PDGA ratings. They wouldn't need the chart if all scores in a player's handicap came only from league and tournament results.
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  #75  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:05 PM
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iacas iacas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Handicapping is a different animal.
I don't see it as being all that different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The reason ball golf has the "bagger" chart is players cheat on handicaps because scores are self reported and not based only from tournament scores like PDGA ratings.
Right, so a player who doesn't have a PDGA rating can "self-report" their "rating" just the same as you can in golf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
They wouldn't need the chart if all scores in a player's handicap came only from league and tournament results.
Well, they still would, for several reasons, but my original post about this idea was not really about handicapping per se, it was just to suggest that a similar chart showing the "odds" of throwing an exceptional score could be part of the process by which players are put into proper brackets, moved from one bracket to another, etc.

Plus it might stop everyone from saying that a guy threw WAY above his level just because he won by eight throws over two rounds. Maybe at his rating level throwing two such rounds would only be 15:1 odds - perfectly believable and not at all an indication of sandbagging.

The more info - the more tools - the better equipped TDs could be. The USGA odds table is just a tool at the disposal of TDs, and a similar one could be used - in various ways - by disc golf TDs as well.

I hope to play a tournament next year. I just joined the PDGA. I have no rounds, and will probably enter the lowest available tournament bracket. But if I throw two 804-rated rounds in April and then throw two 882s in my next tournament, I could see being bumped up to whatever bracket that is even though my average is only 843 and was 804 before entering the second event.
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  #76  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:10 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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Yes, I've played against suppliers. They just pick up their ball... "What are you doing?" "Its my handicap, I can't get more than a 6 on this hole."

WHAT! Putt that thing out sucker! We are playing for BEER!

Anyways, there is none of this in DG handicapping they seem pretty different both ways.

I dislike handicapping. At some point it is impossible to win. If you shoot even par the most you can improve is 36 shots. As you get farther from Par it easier and there are more shots to improve. The PDGA already has ratings protected divisions, isn't this basically the same thing?
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  #77  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:23 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Philosophically, no one should have a problem if a player plays in the same division for one season no matter how good they get during that time. However, the ratings system does move people up automatically if they get better faster unless they are part of a series that allows them to stay in a division the whole season. There's no need to adjust a player's division or DQ them based on some stats chart, especially mid-event. Statistically, there will regularly be players who shoot well above their rating twice in a row, especially when a division size is over 20. It's a normal occurrence even if everyone's rating is accurate to the point. It's just the human performance variance in our game.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:09 PM
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cheddapig cheddapig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheddapig
That 10 bucks for a non member has nothing to do with ratings or record keeping.(CORRECT)
It's just a ploy to make money and justify members spending the money to join.(PARTIALLY CORRECT)
If u were never a member then u will not have a member number or rating associated with anything concerning disc golf.(COMPLETELY CORRECT IF YOU REPLACE DISC GOLF WITH PDGA)
And bagging happens all the time everywhere.(ALSO CORRECT)
But even a current pdga membership can't stop it. If a open player hasn't won in higher division he can patition to have his am status reinstated. So effectively after being out played he can become a bagger in am divisions with the blessing of the pdga (VAGUELY CORRECT TO A POINT)

Wrong. In many ways.(INCORRECT)


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheddapig
You can't tell anyone that they can't play open (BASICALLY CORRECT EXCEPT IN THE PDGA'S HIGHEST CLASS OF TOURNIMENTS) <--- sorry bout that. but in general the division of open is named due to it being open to anyone who wishes to play in it..

Wrong again. Try to register for MPO at an NT being a non or noncurrent member and let me know how that works out. Also, try to register for FPO in any event. You can't play "open."(CORRECT IN THE PDGA'S HIGHEST VENUES YOU CANT PLAY IF YOUR NOT A MEMBER ETC...)

but in all other instances you cant tell someone they cant play open
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  #79  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:21 PM
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jenb jenb is offline
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Just make it so we can buy memberships for the local baggers and enable us to make sure their pdga numbers are used for all their rounds. If they sign up without inputting the number, and we correct it, send the $10 extra they paid to whoever corrected it. That's one way to grow membership. :-)
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  #80  
Old 10-12-2012, 12:48 AM
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dudiablo dudiablo is offline
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ratings are 'over rated' in my opinion. Unless you play in rated tournaments at unfamiliar courses your rating will be ballooned. You can get a local guy who only plays courses in their home town, so their rating would appear higher than if they were to travel and play courses that they don't know the 'local lines.'

Ratings are also based on how many people you beat in a given round. So someone could absolutely dominate at a long 'links' type course, but really struggle in a tight technical course. Are you suggesting that they play in different divisions based on the course, and not not go by their rating?

I fall in the the above category. Last few rounds I shot were rated at a long course and were rated at 1000, but then ill get into a tight technical course and shoot low 900's. I don't feel like that makes me a sandbagger because Ill shoot in an advanced division at a long course and shoot well enough to win open, but ill still play advanced at a short course and land near the bottom of my division.
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