#161  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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ZAMson ZAMson is offline
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Last night I wrote 9,000+ words on this...

If you read deeply into those vague-ish brief descriptions of drivers on the MVP site, you'll find they are littered with concepts from DGR. I speak the same DGR shorthand with MVP as I do with ZJ. Remember they were just regular DGR Joes for a long time before they started posting about their weird homemade blue and red (ick) putter.

Take the most DGR-philosophical mindset of how exactly a "slightly overstable" control driver behaves. Firstly, trust me that "wind-fighting" is off the map. The Volt is stable; it mamimizes its Turn and fades. The Shock dampens Turn more; it still turns, as a control driver should. Unless the Shock is near your arm's maximum speed threshold, like me, it won't be a wind-fighter. That's simply not what slightly overstable control is about. (btw my claim for "control driver" language: the Volt as a "controllable fairway" and personal knowledge that these are Eagle-lineage control designs)

These are not radically spacious grid-encompassing discs. They are two stable control drivers, one slightly on the turn-maximizing side, and another similar but net-positive-stable variation. These are built to be a smart pairing; they are not meant to occupy the entire 0+ fairway spectrum. Expect a smart, workable, past-neutral distance-wrencher. Don't expect it to kill wind; that's a different slot entirely.
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  #162  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:26 AM
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MrGlass01 MrGlass01 is offline
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I am hearing less turn on the shock compared to the volt. is there less or more fade on it?
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  #163  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:35 AM
zj1002 zj1002 is online now
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More LSS
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  #164  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:36 AM
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ZAMson ZAMson is offline
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More, and later in flight
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  #165  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:37 AM
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MrGlass01 MrGlass01 is offline
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^sweet thanks!! solf comparisons sound good to my ears. May be able to get rid of mine. Ill keep the qolf around because the ones i have are meat hook city!!

thanks for all the reviews so far!!
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  #166  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:06 AM
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Thread drift in progress...

Ive thought this for awhile, and i wanted to get Zam or ZJs opinion.
How exactly (or even generally for that matter) will MVP be able to put out a truly overstable disc? I could see them producing a speed stable disc that can be underpowered to act OS, but a truly OS, firebird with a gyro type disc sounds like its almost impossible. To me, the gyro idea hinders true overstability. Thoughts?
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  #167  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:18 AM
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onemilemore onemilemore is online now
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Pwingles, zj and Zam can correct me, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by onemilemore View Post
I asked Chad and Brad this when I interviewed them, and they talked about PLH being a key, but that a super OS gyro disc would have a heavy fade, but be more gradual and less likely to dump off. At least that's how I understood it.
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  #168  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:19 AM
zj1002 zj1002 is online now
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Yeah that is something we chatted about just yesterday. I am very curious how they go about designing an overstable driver. I have my opinions but its not my place to tell MVP that

But again as ZAM alluded we have yet to see them design anything with real intended beef. None of the drivers have a true overstable shape. I think it's possible, and I expect it to actually be a very successful disc by popularity and flight if they go for a FB type

Last edited by zj1002; 01-18-2013 at 11:21 AM.
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  #169  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:40 AM
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I've had all kinds of thoughts about it. Firstly I trust that they can design their way out of any box we imagine would hinder them. Secondly I've imagined that new, deliberate weighting schemes of the blend could achieve some insanely overstable flight profiles.

I think of the MVP lineup and the physics specific to it as sort of like Millennium's early years. MILL was the first lineup based on premium plastic. They featured beadless, notchless, neutral-stable discs out of the box. Those were the first molds designed for the properties of that new plastic class -- primarily that it was so durable, it didn't need these damage-mitigating mold features. I imagine the JLS and Polaris and MS designs would inspire us to post (maybe on Prodigy BBS ) things like "how could these beadless notchless jokers EVER put out a wind-fighter?" In hindsight we know, just wait 15 years for the company buyout that finally brings about overstable/power molds... jk jk jk. MVP is similar in that the properties of their material/process necessitate a new way of thinking about the lineup and designing smart mold families. Nowdays, we think nothing of beadless/notchless overstable molds/families. This is just our perception right now, and we are only 6 molds and 3 speeds deep into the understanding of MVP flight physics. I trust they can blow our minds, and I see the wisdom in not placing fenceposts at every corner of the flight chart, then littering the yard with arbitrary molds. They really went to the heart of accurate distance by putting out what (for some throwers) might equate to a +0.5 and a -0.5 control driver combo. That's too narrow for some bags, but there's some gold yet to be discovered and fully understood. Again I'd stress how loaded the term "control" is in the mind of a golden-age DGR nerd.

tl;dr -- You've gotta trust that great designers can solve their own design problems in more creative ways than any outsider could imagine.
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  #170  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemilemore View Post
Pwingles, zj and Zam can correct me, but...
Theres nothing to correct, theyre right (i really need to check that interview out). I am a physics retard. But, the theory of the gyro tech isnt beyond me. I see the pro's of it, and what you can achieve. But, what theyre describing isnt a 'truly OS' disc in the commonly accepted way that we use the term. In reality, all discs are speed stable. But, some are more so. Xcal and Boss are good examples. I could see them making an XCal type disc, that will be hard enough to get to cruisig speed and stay there, that i would be an OS mold for most. It would be much easier to make that disc with a wide wing. I think a FB or XXX type disc would be very hard to attain using the gyro tech inthe way it was intended. There would be very little room to have enough overmold on the edge. It seems to me, that to make a meat hook mid or driver with a narrower rim, they may have to scrap the gyro idea all together forthat mold. Its counterintuitive for me to think that a disc with technology that makes the line easier to hold, would be conducive to a hard fading disc and a wind fighter
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