The Value for money debate

[The Hammer]

Originally Posted by TOURNEYPLAYER

I am really sick of this argument. The only answer to this is Pros should play for cash, top three or whatever get paid. everyone else gets nothing.

Ams should be trophy only. the winner gets a trophy of some sort. and if the TD wants to give a t-shirt or disc as an incentive to sign up sure. but otherwise no prizes for also rans. CTPs are cool, Ring of Fire. if you are able to get donations. but damn kids, this isnt field day at your middle school where everybody gets a little ribbon. nor should it be. we are grown (some more than others) men. stop expecting free ****. people work very hard for nothing and whiny little bitches expect primo plastic just for getting up before 9 am.

Agreed.

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Originally Posted by The Hammer

Agreed.

the club can also vend at said event. just because you dont give out vouchers, doesnt mean people wont buy your crappy innova plastic.

[archmage]

Actually I'd like it better if at least amateur prizes were trophy only. I used to compete in cycling, and all we got were medals and trophies, and that was fine. Paying for the experience, fine. Paying to the club, fine. But that someone else leaves the tournament with money or gift card that came partially from my pocket, that makes the tournaments feel like poker tournament, betting, or playing pool for money. And that's when things like return of investment, expected value, etc. start to creep in my head. You wouldn't play pool against the local shark for $20 a game if you know you can't win him.

I play some tournaments, but it bugs me that it feels like gambling with negative ROI (because I'm not good enough to be on the receiving end of the payouts). If the only people that got my money were the organizers, it would feel more like paying for the experience.

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Originally Posted by archmage

Actually I'd like it better if at least amateur prizes were trophy only. I used to compete in cycling, and all we got were medals and trophies, and that was fine. Paying for the experience, fine. Paying to the club, fine. But that someone else leaves the tournament with money or gift card that came partially from my pocket, that makes the tournaments feel like poker tournament, betting, or playing pool for money. And that's when things like return of investment, expected value, etc. start to creep in my head. You wouldn't play pool against the local shark for $20 a game if you know you can't win him.

I play some tournaments, but it bugs me that it feels like gambling with negative ROI (because I'm not good enough to be on the receiving end of the payouts). If the only people that got my money were the organizers, it would feel more like paying for the experience.

very insightful. I like it.

[Martin Dewgarita]

As much as you should be able to expect a return on your investment of $$, the TD should be able to expect reimbursement for their time invested. Time = $$, if I feel my time is worth $20/hour and I spend 15 hours preparing and running the tournament, that doesn't leave much for payouts.

[Grungedude42]

Originally Posted by discgolfbandit

Sorry folks, CLEARLY I was wrong...TDs are free to charge whatever they see fit with zero accountability and if you dont like it, just miss it and look for a better job or something, sigh.

If all this guy is doing is lining his pocket, I'd probably pass on playing his events. We don't have that much in our scene, as clubs coordinate events statewide here, and the regular player base wouldn't give a "for-profit" coordinator the time of day.
I'd suggest organizing a club, and hosting competing events if the guy's scummy. The "accountability" is only his ability to make money off the public resources, assuming it's a public park. If there's no competition for hosting events, then I'm afraid it's very much a "take it or leave it" situation.

[The Hammer]

Originally Posted by Martin Dewgarita

As much as you should be able to expect a return on your investment of $$, the TD should be able to expect reimbursement for their time invested. Time = $$, if I feel my time is worth $20/hour and I spend 15 hours preparing and running the tournament, that doesn't leave much for payouts.

I have to agree with this. Being a TD is a thankless job, and it would seem that TD's get **** on a lot by people complaining about things like payouts. Perhaps if we, the disc golf community, started compensating the TD's for their time, we would have more people stepping up to the plate to run events.

[simpletwist]

Early on a friend of mine said don't bother with a certain tournament because you're just paying the top players so it wasn't worth it. So I avoided the tournament scene. I was wrong. My first sanctioned event cost $50, I was severely outclassed. And all I got for my money was a DX disc. Didn't even have any sort of special stamp. I had a blast. It wasn't about the payback, but about the experience. The camaraderie. The meeting new people. Getting good advice.

Some tournament events have a lot of shwag. Another tourney, also sanctioned, also $50, I got a choice of 2 premium, tournament stamped discs from both Innova & Discraft. Also included was an umbrella and something else too, can't remember. In addition there was plenty of water and snacks on the course. And the payout for Ams? Just a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd trophy. With the water and snacks I easily made my money back.

Was it any more fun taking home the shwag? I suppose it was a nice perk, but I would have played it anyway.

Local unsanctioned events run along the same lines. Sometimes there is nothing but a payout. Sometimes its like Christmas.

[The Hammer]

Originally Posted by simpletwist

Early on a friend of mine said don't bother with a certain tournament because you're just paying the top players so it wasn't worth it. So I avoided the tournament scene. I was wrong. My first sanctioned event cost $50, I was severely outclassed. And all I got for my money was a DX disc. Didn't even have any sort of special stamp. I had a blast. It wasn't about the payback, but about the experience. The camaraderie. The meeting new people. Getting good advice.

Some tournament events have a lot of shwag. Another tourney, also sanctioned, also $50, I got a choice of 2 premium, tournament stamped discs from both Innova & Discraft. Also included was an umbrella and something else too, can't remember. In addition there was plenty of water and snacks on the course. And the payout for Ams? Just a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd trophy. With the water and snacks I easily made my money back.

Was it any more fun taking home the shwag? I suppose it was a nice perk, but I would have played it anyway.

Local unsanctioned events run along the same lines. Sometimes there is nothing but a payout. Sometimes its like Christmas.

This is the attitude to have. If you are going into a tournament expecting to get something tangible out of it; you are doing it for the wrong reasons, especially as an AM.
Pros will have a slightly different mindset. We always expect ourselves to do well enough to get paid. If we don't, the blame should be directed inward.

[SpacemanSpliff]

At first player packs were a big deal, when I was newish and wanted to try new plastic. Now, I have a narrowed bag, know the molds I like, so the player packs have much less impact. When you start placing in AM, we (not sure if it works like this everywhere) get scrip(t). This gets old very fast, as the stacks of plastic start towering. Its almost reason to jump to open, that, and you can leave earlier on Sundays when you didnt even come close to cashing.

Although getting unusual things in player packs keeps me interested. So far SmartWool socks and an aluminum mini has been the best. Not bad for an $80 AM entry fee.