The Value for money debate

[JC17393]

Originally Posted by Puckstopper

Unless you're scamming, I don't see how transparency hurts you.

Agreed. But I think the key is full transparency after the event, so players can look at it and say "okay, I got my money's worth" and future players can look at it and say "this event has given great value in the past".

I once took the full transparency before the event route. On the tournament flyer, the entry fees were broken down to show exactly where every dollar was intended to go...pdga fees, local series fees, greens fees, player pack, payout, charity, lunch, etc, etc. The problem that caused was not accusations of scamming, but cries and whines of "why are you including this" and "I don't want to pay for that". Some mistook the breakdown for an a la carte menu, expecting that they could discount the PDGA fee from their entry because they weren't members and didn't care to have their score sent in, or discounting the player pack because they didn't want one, etc.

Much more of a headache dealing with that than the occasional malcontent who wanted to know where their money went after the fact.

[rakeyohn]

Originally Posted by Puckstopper

Entry fees: $575 ($25 average times 230 players)
Sponsorship Cash:$1000
Sponsorship Merchandise(retail value) $500
Total Funds:$2050
Payouts:$700
Park Rental$150
Insurance:$100
Food/Drink($250
Players Packs$500 (retail merchandise)
Misc. Expenses:$172
Cash to Club/TD$203/18 man hours of setup=$11.28 per hour.

I second the need for transparency.. there's 1,000's in unaccounted funds lol!

[Sadjo]

I keep really good records and when questioned I always offer to share the cost/budget of events I run. No one has ever taking me up on that. I think those that complain just do it because that's who they are.

Last event I ran someone got up in my face and i did what i always do...offered to show them the budget for the event....includes copies of receipts and all. They didn't want to see just complain. After they started at me again, i said offered to refund their entry fee so they could walk away...and that didn't work.

I decided before that event i was ready to be done running events....and that just confirmed my desire to be done.

[Dave242]

Remember that the items that are done on a per-player basis, the TD needs to account for maximum attendance. It would reflect horribly on the TD if food/players Paks/drinks ran out. But, then the financial risk the TD assumes is that if less than the maximum turns out, all of these items potentially become a loss for the tournament budget.

Conversely, the fixed cost items (insurance, rental/usage fees, sanctioning, etc) become less on a per player basis the more players show up.

This makes it hard to plan since our culture is allowing sign-ups at the event. It also makes it hard to calculate and post a financial overview at the event.

[Dave242]

Originally Posted by Puckstopper

Entry fees: $575 ($25 average times 230 players)
Sponsorship Cash:$1000
Sponsorship Merchandise(retail value) $500
Total Funds:$2050
Payouts:$700
Park Rental$150
Insurance:$100
Food/Drink($250
Players Packs$500 (retail merchandise)
Misc. Expenses:$172
Cash to Club/TD$203/18 man hours of setup=$11.28 per hour.

Obviously my numbers are off, but it's a good enough hypothetical to move on with.

Yeah....your numbers are off
It is 23 players, not 230 to get $575 in entry fees at $25 per head.
$1000 cash raised for a 23 player event is amazing! (what is the sponsors' ROI, might I ask?)
18 man hours to run an event is very "efficient", if you catch my drift.

I would like to play in your event. With $22 players packs for all, $11 food/drink each, and $700 of payout for the top 40%* that is a pretty good time!!

*payout curve might look like this:
1- $140
2- $100
3- $90
4- $80
5- $70
6- $60
7- $52
8- $44
9- $36
10- $28

......and you would still get complaints about the wholesale/retail differential. People want you to give them stuff at wholesale cost, dang it!

[Smigles]

Originally Posted by discgolfbandit

I know this is a topic Ive read on here in the past, but wanted to gauge peoples opinions on pricing/value, that have come up locally.

One event was run, $25 a head. Players pack was a base plastic, standard disc. 20 players in total, 4 divisions. Each div winner took home a $20 voucher and an event trophy.

Is that good value for money? Is that the norm?

Good value for money has nothing to do with starting fees or winners payout.

I want a nice tournament, good atmosphere, challenging course, good competition. If it has that, and as long as it is not over 100$, it's good value for money.

[Sadjo]

I deducted $5 per player when I've provided lunch. No matter the preregistration, you need to plan for a full field...so anything less can be a loss. At $5 a head, that allows for a decent amount of food. If I deducted $11 per player, everyone might get surf and turf.

[DavidSauls]

I favor transparency, with the goal of educating players. But phrases like "transparency" and "scamming" imply that it's all the player's money, from start to finish.

Anywhere else where I pay admission or pay to participate in an event, I don't expect a financial statement to demonstrate where my money went. I judge whether the concert or amusement park or guided canoe trip was worth what I paid, in terms of enjoyment. If it wasn't, I don't go back.

I feel the same way about disc golf tournaments. If I pay $40 to play and get $40 enjoyment for a weekend of participation in an organized event, I'm happy. I don't particularly care about the financials, except that I hope the TD didn't lose money on the deal.

[DavidSauls]

Footnote to above: I do think TD's promoting a certain payout, such as "100% payout" or "$1000 cash added", have an obligation to show how that was calculated.

[Mabuku1]

no more transparency please. theres no need to know where every penny is going. they are not an entity of the govt. so there should be no "show me the money trail"attitude. they are making a tournament and should get paid to do so. you see the flyer and want to compete or you don't. that should be all.