The Value for money debate

[texhop58]

Originally Posted by Puckstopper

Personally I'm not sure why some here resist transparency so much. If I were a TD I'd be in favor of it, to get players off my back. In the example above, on the surface, I'd agree that the second tourney sounds more appealing as a player. However, if the course the first tourney was on was better/more fun/ etc... that might sway my opinion. What if the first course cost 3x as much to rent? To be fair, I think this is why TD's should provide itemized lists of costs. It would increase transparency, and reduce whining if players had a better understanding of where the money came from and

The second was ran better as well. But it was also from dynamic. So they are a bigger company. My other was a small time local guy who runs a few different things.

[Sadjo]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Footnote to above: I do think TD's promoting a certain payout, such as "100% payout" or "$1000 cash added", have an obligation to show how that was calculated.

I believe that if you advertise 100% payout, you need to payout 100% of what the players pay in. When i advertised the SC Doubles Championship as 100% payout, all of the money that came in for each division went back out to the division in cash or prizes. All of the PDGA fees, cost of the player packs and CTPs were all covered by sponsorship dollars.

Twice when i was short sponsor dollars, I advertised '100% Not Including PDGA Fees'.

I've heard from some players complain about players packs....even the year i had 3 different Discraft Discs and 3 different Innova discs (each played got to pick 2 discs), t-shirts with team names on them and stash minis.

When ive done this event, all the CTPs prizes have been out of my personal collection mixed with discs remaining from past events ive run (i always order extra) and players have still complained.

I goes to show you can truly go all out and still players find something wrong.

[Dave242]

Originally Posted by Mabuku1

no more transparency please. theres no need to know where every penny is going. they are not an entity of the govt. so there should be no "show me the money trail"attitude. they are making a tournament and should get paid to do so. you see the flyer and want to compete or you don't. that should be all.

You of course are right and I agree with you in principal. But in actuality, that is not the culture in which we are operating (DG culture and the culture at large).

So, while the complainers are a vast minority, one of their loud complaints counteract to their hearers 10 great things the TD (and team/club) has done. With a summary of the financials, everyone is armed to defend the TD and tell the complainers to put a sock in it. Without it, the TD needs to defend his/her self.....and that is awkward and ineffective.

[PhattD]

Originally Posted by discgolfbandit

Sorry folks, CLEARLY I was wrong...TDs are free to charge whatever they see fit with zero accountability and if you dont like it, just miss it and look for a better job or something, sigh.

Try entering a race. Zero green fee you pay $50-$75 and get a tee shirt. Show me one other sport that gives you as much for playing in an event.

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by texhop58

The second was ran better as well. But it was also from dynamic. So they are a bigger company. My other was a small time local guy who runs a few different things.

Another thing to consider is that when you have a retailer running tournaments, they can eat a lot more of the costs. They bring big inventory, and on top of the wholesale markup for players' packs and payouts they often sell a ton of discs and other stuff to the players and even casuals passing by. An independent TD without a big stash of cheaply acquired plastic doesn't have that additional income so they can't afford to pay for things like course rental and TD supplies without it coming out of the entry fees.

[ohtobediscing]

Originally Posted by Mabuku1

no more transparency please. theres no need to know where every penny is going. they are not an entity of the govt. so there should be no "show me the money trail"attitude. they are making a tournament and should get paid to do so. you see the flyer and want to compete or you don't. that should be all.

The mantra of every shyster who was clearing the public coffers of excess funds.

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by ohtobediscing

The mantra of every shyster who was clearing the public coffers of excess funds.

Yeah, except you have every opportunity not to give your money to a TD you think is being "untrustworthy". Unfortunately, "untrustworthy" in disc golf circles means a TD doesn't lose money while putting in a ton of hours to put together an event for us.

[rakeyohn]

Originally Posted by PhattD

Try entering a race. Zero green fee you pay $50-$75 and get a tee shirt. Show me one other sport that gives you as much for playing in an event.

I'm all for this. A group of us posted an event not long ago and the first thing asked was about payouts which were going to be 100% and high quality and why there wasn't a division posted that this gentlemen felt he could easily win basically.. We need to have a serious discussion I think on this board about the sense of entitlement we are experiencing in our sport right now. I know this is one instance but this subject has been burning a hole in my brain as of late.

[ohtobediscing]

Originally Posted by mashnut

Yeah, except you have every opportunity not to give your money to a TD you think is being "untrustworthy". Unfortunately, "untrustworthy" in disc golf circles means a TD doesn't lose money while putting in a ton of hours to put together an event for us.

I agree. I've volunteered for more events than I've played in, and am completely aware of the ratio of effort:monetary return. That still doesn't negate Mabuku's statement, which is self-centered at best.

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by ohtobediscing

I agree. I've volunteered for more events than I've played in, and am completely aware of the ratio of effort:monetary return. That still doesn't negate Mabuku's statement, which is self-centered at best.

From my vantage point, "self-centered" is an adjective more aptly applied to players, who as a group demand to play for free by getting their entire entries back in players packs and prizes, than to a TD who gives most if not all of the entries back to theplayers, but doesn't publish his financial statement.