#21  
Old 02-01-2013, 07:03 AM
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JMONEY JMONEY is offline
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When reaching back keep your elbow close to your body like a Trex has short arms, and always keep your eyes on the target!
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2013, 12:18 PM
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MrDarkHorse MrDarkHorse is offline
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Hey sidewinder and others...

Question: the more I've been reading about Snap and the bent arm technique and hammer drills and all of the timing involved in the release, etc., the more comfortable I'm becoming with it all, at least conceptually. Obviously it's going to take a lot of field work and likely months and years of practice to really get it all down.


My real issue or question is whether or not this is the kind of thing I should be focusing on now if I'm trying to work on my game from the inside out.

What I mean is, I may not be able to throw 400' right now, and I think if I keep practicing all this I can, but at least at the courses I'm playing at right now, throwing 400' isn't an extremely important skill.

I'm a little more interested right now in improving accuracy and eliminating OAT at like a 150'-250' range. Am I jumping the gun here by getting into all of this power theory stuff?

I've been playing primarily with Putters and mids, (mostly my Buzzz) and I know I'm not going to crush anything with a putter, but I'm not sure if I really want to be doing any kind of run up or snap at those kinds of distances. There just doesn't seem to be as much focus on this aspect of the game, which to me is weird since it seems like at least 60% of the game.


TIA.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2013, 02:55 PM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is offline
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"Something to be known about this is that if your form is missing the basic few fundamentals, working on snap is rather moot since you'll be blocking yourself from getting it and it will basically be an exercise in frustration.

Before attempting to work snap you should:
1. have a sound, fundamental grip (wrist down, etc.)
2. be able to throw with shoulder rotation (not everyone does)
3. have a pull line that keeps the disc close to the body.
4. have no problems with getting your weight forward (unless you are content only throwing
hyzers).
5. be able to throw without "strong arming" the disc.
6. be able to throw without jamming your pivot (aka allowing for yourself to clear the hip).
7. be able to throw without significant OAT.

Without those 7 things, you probably aren't getting 350'. without those 7 things, you will be unable to hit the positions/timing needed to adequately learn/understand snap.

You have to learn to walk before you can run."


Blake_T
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  #24  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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I'm not sure what your questions are, it was more of a ramble. If you improve your snap, you will most likely improve your accuracy as well, and help ridding bad oat.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:34 PM
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MrDarkHorse MrDarkHorse is offline
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Right.

So when I created this thread I was asking for help for approach shots.

The stuff from Dan Beato and Blake T are really good, but it seems like it's really more for a more intermediate/advanced player looking to take things to the next level. Beato's form in particular seems like a pretty big deviation from the "normal" throwing technique.

Maybe I'm wrong. That's just my impression.



Most of the video instruction and stuff I can find is centered around driving and power. I'd like like to know more about precision form for shots inside of 250'. And I don't want loopy hyzers. I want to throw in a strait line as much as possible. (at least for now... I can practice hyzers later)


I think the snap videos have helped my form, as well as the stuff about leading with the elbow. But I'm not sure I can adequately power down these technique, or if that's even the right thing to do.


I completely willing to read about and try any technique, but unfortunately I don't have anyone that knows what they're doing to watch me throw.
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  #26  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:39 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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I think the reason approach shots aren't as well-researched is that they're much easier to figure out on your own than distance driving. Just about anyone regardless of physical ability can learn to throw great approach shots, not everyone can learn to throw 500'+. Just go to a field, pick a target, and figure out what works best for you. Play around with different discs, grips, lines, nose angles and learn what's consistent for you and your disc lineup.
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  #27  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:52 PM
Alcuin Alcuin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDarkHorse View Post
Right.

So when I created this thread I was asking for help for approach shots.

The stuff from Dan Beato and Blake T are really good, but it seems like it's really more for a more intermediate/advanced player looking to take things to the next level. Beato's form in particular seems like a pretty big deviation from the "normal" throwing technique.

Maybe I'm wrong. That's just my impression.



Most of the video instruction and stuff I can find is centered around driving and power. I'd like like to know more about precision form for shots inside of 250'. And I don't want loopy hyzers. I want to throw in a strait line as much as possible. (at least for now... I can practice hyzers later)


I think the snap videos have helped my form, as well as the stuff about leading with the elbow. But I'm not sure I can adequately power down these technique, or if that's even the right thing to do.


I completely willing to read about and try any technique, but unfortunately I don't have anyone that knows what they're doing to watch me throw.
I didn't have anybody to help me learn the basics either, and I read a lot of what you're reading when I just started out.

One thing you need to realize is that everybody has their own form. You don't want Beto's form, you want your own. However, the principles he's demonstrating are important. I learned by stripping everything down to throwing with no runup, no reachback, and with a putter. This is essentially what Beto's doing at the beginning of the "working from the hit back."

I can throw decently far using a putter and just holding the disc at my chest and throwing it. When I throw approach shots (for me, that's a shot from ~100-250), I'm basically just stripping down the shot by taking away the run up, and shortening my reach back. I also take some spin off the shot for certain shots if I want the disc to float a bit, or put a lot of spin on the disc to get it to skip or hold a dead straight line through the basket if I'm running at it. Long story short: yes, you want to use the same mechanic when you're powering down.

If you develop consistency with your form, you'll very likely automatically do this. That's why people don't talk about it much: because when you're talking about disc golf form, you're talking about a mechanic that works from 100 to infinity.

Work on throwing your discs straight. Go out with a neutral putter and throw it straight. If you can only do that up to 75', keep working at it up to 75'. Then keep trying to add power, and pay attention to what's inhibiting you. It's difficult, because there will be a lot of things that are inhibiting you, but work on them a bit at a time. Pare down your throw to nothing but a standstill, and focus on your grip and pulling the disc straight across your chest. Just keep doing that until you're getting those putters out to your desired range (I guess that's 250' for you right now).

I'm not a natural at the game, and it's taken me many many hours of practice to learn this stuff. There's no substitute for that, unless you're naturally gifted.

Also, I don't like the Buzzz as a disc to work on your form with. You can throw that disc with a significant amount of OAT, especially when your just starting out and are not throwing with a lot of power. Work with discs that will punish you for throwing them wrong like the Comet, Pure, Anode, Wizard, Aviar, Fuse, Stingray, etc. Take that punishment happily, and work to eliminate the things that are inhibiting your throws. Maybe you'll say "but I don't know what's stopping me from throwing them further!" That's true, you won't. But you have to figure it out for yourself: observe what you're doing in as detailed a way as possible, and try to isolate your problems. No one can really show you what your problems are as well as you can. You have to learn to develop your own form.
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:52 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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My approach shots are basically just powered down/shorter reachback/looser grip drives.

Last edited by sidewinder22; 02-04-2013 at 04:54 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:52 PM
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MrDarkHorse MrDarkHorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
I think the reason approach shots aren't as well-researched is that they're much easier to figure out on your own than distance driving. Just about anyone regardless of physical ability can learn to throw great approach shots, not everyone can learn to throw 500'+. Just go to a field, pick a target, and figure out what works best for you. Play around with different discs, grips, lines, nose angles and learn what's consistent for you and your disc lineup.
Fair enough. I was actually having pretty good success today.

It's just a common theme I keep hearing that newbies all have bad form and people wish they would have learned to throw the right way before they developed all their bad habits.

It seems to me that form either matters or it doesn't. Sure I can "figure out what works for me" on approach shots, but I'd like to lay a good foundation for good technique when it matters.


Dan Ensor just listed off 7 things I should be good at before I start working on snap.
1. have a sound, fundamental grip (wrist down, etc.)
I'm pretty sure my grip is good with correct angles, etc. This seems to be one of the more documented topics.
2. be able to throw with shoulder rotation (not everyone does)
I can throw with shoulder rotation, but it's not clear to me if you should always throw with should rotation. I don't see people doing it in very many videos that I've seen on the subject, and in fact I've heard people say that you shouldn't rotate your shoulders until you get a little further out and you need the distance.
3. have a pull line that keeps the disc close to the body.
I think I'm doing this fairly well, but I'm a little fuzzy about where the disc/elbow should be on the actual release of the disc.
4. have no problems with getting your weight forward (unless you are content only throwing hyzers).
I've gotten better at shifting my weight forward. early on I was having a lot of nose angle issues.
5. be able to throw without "strong arming" the disc.
I can probably throw about 250' with decent accuracy (with a stable mid like a Buzzz or Roc) without putting too much on it.
6. be able to throw without jamming your pivot (aka allowing for yourself to clear the hip).
Not really sure what this means, so it may be an issue for me
7. be able to throw without significant OAT.
This has improved significantly since I watched the snap videos sindwinder posted. The problem is that I'm not sure how to power down the snap, and without the snap OAT becomes more of an issue, if that makes any sense.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:56 PM
Gennataos Gennataos is offline
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Speaking from my meger experience, I think the pursuit of distance for relatively new players can be dangerous and impede progress. I've certainly learned a lot from the pursuit, but too often I've become focused only on distance at the detriment to accuracy. I think a slow, steady approach...just continuing to work on smooth form is the best route, with the distance coming naturally as one improves.

As far as working on approach shots, I think the best approach is NOT to think of it as a disc golf 'shot'. Just throw the frisbee. I, too, got all worried about having proper form for every type of shot, only to find my real groove when I stopped worrying about form and just chucked the disc. For approaches, I've backed off thinking I have to have a driving grip for approaches and started gripping it more like a putting grip. I stopped doing the reach back and would just use the same sort of "from across the body" motion I'd have for throwing a regular frisbee. I've been having a lot of success with this and it's made me realize that I've been making the game a lot harder than it needs to be. Just point and shoot the disc and see how it works for you. Also, I would agree that a slight hyzer to approach shots is the best way to go when possible and will feel most natural.
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