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Old 02-16-2013, 09:12 PM
roclover roclover is offline
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Course Design Validation Elements

This Question is mainly for Chuck, but if other people have ideas please feel free to chime in.

I found this program/spreadsheet, which I believe you created, and have been using it to keep track of courses/holes I've designed.

I have found it to be very useful and also quite fun (I love stats). One issue I've always had though is wind... A hole can play much harder if there are strong prevailing winds in the area. Is this a program that you personally still use? Have you given any thought to including a way to adjust for wind? What I've for now done is tweak the OB numbers to help compensate for the difficulty added by the wind. For me, most of the holes with string wind are also right along the ocean or water anyways, so the wind does usually cause more throws to go OB. See holes 6, 8, 10, and 12 on the attachment.

Another question about OB. On par 4's or 5's where there are multiple chances to throw OB (think hole 5 at Winthrop Gold) how do you count that in the program? If you have 20 people that play the hole and 8 throw OB but 3 of them throw OB twice do you count that as 8 or 11?

Thanks
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:55 PM
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New013 New013 is offline
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interesting, where do you get this spreadsheet from and how does it work?

i saw the spreadsheet he created to access how good a course could be put on a property but never this one.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:25 PM
roclover roclover is offline
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I first saw it in this article. http://www.pdga.com/course-design-validation . The process is explained in detail. I don't remember where I finally got the spreadsheet from... I search for is all over the pdga and this site and finally found it somewhere, but that was a few years ago. Read the article, it's quite good.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:14 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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The spreadsheet is a benefit of membership in the Disc Golf Course Designers group and is not publicly available.

Wind will increase the scoring average on a course but seems dicey to directly account for in a hole design SSA calculation. The Hole Forecaster determines baseline values without wind. However, if the designer wishes to account for it due to reliable wind speeds and direction on a property, they can adjust for that within the spreadsheet if they wish.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:21 AM
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New013 New013 is offline
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So the spreadsheet helps designers build better courses but you hoard it so most of the public can't design better courses? Makes sense.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:28 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Exactly. Ideally we want people designing courses to have some knowledge and experience. That's why we have an organization to develop that skill since it's not available from any educational institution.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:43 PM
roclover roclover is offline
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I had no idea the spreadsheet was private. Like I said, I don't even remember where I found it so I'm sorry for stirring the pot. So I'm assuming that you believe using wind is "dicey" because of the inconsistency of that particular element. Makes sense, though in areas with trade winds and wet/dry windy/calm seasons I think the wind is often the #1 challenge.

Moving on though, what about low ceilings? Obviously a low ceiling on a hole can make a huge difference, especially if there's no option to go up and over and "plinko" back down. For example, on a 300 ft hole where many top players would usually throw a mid-range disc or maybe even a putter, a low ceiling would force them to club up. Now there disc will probably have a greater chance of skipping off the green and leaving them with a harder putt. So in a way, while the distance is the same, the hole actually plays longer. What kind of thought do you usually give to that, and do you adjust your hole distances when dealing with low ceilings?

Thanks.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:00 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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All of the questions you are asking are part of the discussions we have within the Course Designers group where we get into the nitty gritty of using the template. People who post here that are heavy into design or the concepts involved are welcome to join the group. PM me with your email and I'll send info on joining. It's the closest we have to a college class on course design with several experts to help and tools to help you.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:35 PM
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^Agreed. It is definitely a useful membership. I have learned a lot from other members and used a lot of the available tools regarding design specifications. Each person takes a little bit more or less out of it depending on their experience in the game, but the idea of getting everybody "on the same page" is where its value lies the heaviest IMO. Plus it is a "very cheap" college class with professors (if you will) from varying backgrounds.
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