Intentional OAT?

[jenb]

I was surprised at a Feldberg clinic last year when he said that most pros, a lot of the time, are pulling on one line and releasing on another.

I started paying more attention as I played open recently and noticed that it seems to be true. I see pros pulling hyzer and releasing more flat.

Of course, that's the forbidden "throwing off plane" that introduces the dreaded "off axis torque (OAT)." I've tried it myself though, recently, and I see how it could be useful.

So what do you think? Is OAT to be avoided at all costs, or is intentional OAT an essential part of a complete player's game?

[jongoff09]

OAT is avoidable, but I find intentional OAT useful. I use it more on slower discs than I do faster ones, but I do it on a lot of shots.

[knettles]

I'm just wondering why one would use OAT. Generally, it makes a disc act more understable. Couldn't you just throw a slightly more understable disc to get the same result? Also, OAT causes wobble, which slows a disc down more. So you will get more distance without OAT. What's the actual reason for using it then?

[notroman]

Nothing wrong with intentionally adding torque. That's how you shape a lot of lines. OAT is shunned for beginners because they are not aware they're doing it and it leads to bad consequences. Once you have clean form you can use toque to your advantage.

[chickenonabun]

some shots you just can't throw without OAT.

[notroman]

Originally Posted by knettles

I'm just wondering why one would use OAT. Generally, it makes a disc act more understable. Couldn't you just throw a slightly more understable disc to get the same result? Also, OAT causes wobble, which slows a disc down more. So you will get more distance without OAT. What's the actual reason for using it then?

OAT doesn't always wobble. Assuming you have enough spin on a disc to stabilize it, you won't see any wobble.

You can use torque to control when and how hard a disc will turn. You can also use torque to throw an overstable driver on a flat plane to keep it from hyzering out early. These are just two examples. You can use it to shape all kinds of lines - the key is you have to be in control of it. Throwing understable discs to shape lines can yield similar results, but not the same - much like throwing lefty backhand and righty sidearm.

Also, I think intentionally torquing stable discs to shape lines is more forgiving than trying to play with turn on understable plastic. That's why you don't see too many pros throwing really flippy stuff (unless they're old school players that grew up throwing understable plastic).

[notroman]

Originally Posted by knettles

I'm just wondering why one would use OAT. Generally, it makes a disc act more understable. Couldn't you just throw a slightly more understable disc to get the same result? Also, OAT causes wobble, which slows a disc down more. So you will get more distance without OAT. What's the actual reason for using it then?

OAT doesn't always wobble. Assuming you have enough spin on a disc to stabilize it, you won't see any wobble.

You can use torque to control when and how hard a disc will turn. You can also use torque to throw an overstable driver on a flat plane to keep it from hyzering out early. These are just two examples. You can use it to shape all kinds of lines - the key is you have to be in control of it. Throwing understable discs to shape lines can yield similar results, but not the same - much like throwing lefty backhand and righty sidearm.

Also, I think intentionally torquing stable discs to shape lines is more forgiving than trying to play with turn on understable plastic. That's why you don't see too many pros throwing really flippy stuff (unless they're old school players that grew up throwing understable plastic). There are, however, some lines you can only get with understable discs much like there are some lines you can only throw by torquing an overstable disc. It's good to have a grasp of both techniques.

[jenb]

I sepnt part of today in field practice seeing what different discs do when I torque them. There have always been a lot of wooded lines that I've wondered how to hit. I always thought others were able to hyzer flip something that I can't get up to speed, but now I can see how intentional OAT with a stable or overstable disc could be useful.

[jongoff09]

Originally Posted by notroman

OAT doesn't always wobble. Assuming you have enough spin on a disc to stabilize it, you won't see any wobble.

You can use torque to control when and how hard a disc will turn. You can also use torque to throw an overstable driver on a flat plane to keep it from hyzering out early. These are just two examples. You can use it to shape all kinds of lines - the key is you have to be in control of it. Throwing understable discs to shape lines can yield similar results, but not the same - much like throwing lefty backhand and righty sidearm.

Also, I think intentionally torquing stable discs to shape lines is more forgiving than trying to play with turn on understable plastic. That's why you don't see too many pros throwing really flippy stuff (unless they're old school players that grew up throwing understable plastic).

Notroman and I are on the same page. ^^

[New013]

this thread is going to break peoples minds......

i throw flex shots with overstable stuff coming through on a slight hyzer and wrist roll, it decreases the laterlal movement of the flex and keeps it more line drive. very useful