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  #31  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:09 AM
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harr0140 harr0140 is offline
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This is interesting and I will sit back and watch the discussion.

Did someone link the original thread?
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  #32  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:31 AM
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I enjoy their tournaments, just wish they'd give me the bag tag I paid for...
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  #33  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:59 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).
Considering the recreational division has probably the most volatile turnover and is usually the division that first timers choose when they start playing tournaments this isn't all that surprising.

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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only.
So what exactly is the criteria here that make this a DD problem? I see nothing in your analysis here that suggests this sort of thing doesn't also happen at non-DD events. The people who won't play their events because of this might as well stop playing tournaments altogether.

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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.
Or you could take the optimist's position that everyone is a winner considering that their entire entry fee minus fees was pretty much returned to them in plastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.
This will never happen nor should it. The PDGA would be cutting their own throats by doing it. If a TD had told me at my first event as a PDGA member that I had to play Advanced and essentially donate to prove that I wasn't an advanced caliber player, I'd have never joined.

If people in the third level of Am division play are that concerned with fair and equitable distribution of prizes, even when minus a trophy, its about as fair and equitable as you can make it, they need to rethink their priorities a bit. There are ramifications to playing in the bottom division and they are really nothing that DD or the PDGA can solve. Its usually the cheapest entry fee and termed "recreational" for a reason.
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  #34  
Old 03-06-2013, 04:54 AM
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LoPan12 LoPan12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
Considering the recreational division has probably the most volatile turnover and is usually the division that first timers choose when they start playing tournaments this isn't all that surprising.
Played in my first tournament last month...still not a PDGA member, but there was only pro, advanced, and intermediate. So I played intermediate. I got smoked. I tied for last, or second to last. And it was at my "home" course. I probably average a few over par, but he, first tournament. My first round was +11.
One round I shot was rated 907 thought It's late...and I'm sure I had a point when I started to reply...but I've lost it...

Oh! It's that even though someone might think they will do alright, or even well, they still gotta start at the bottom to see where they really stand against everyone else.

Int winner? Not rated, and he shot -11, 970/963/970/944. Second place was even.
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  #35  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:20 AM
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DD-Smitty DD-Smitty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRaider View Post
Already had a house booked for worlds.. now with this BS .. i will not be goin to worlds .. for I will not pay over 1500 like i did last yr to travel and compete within a division that my RATING is at and not be able to play for anything .. when the top 20 of last yr we had I believe 8-10 players at 990 rating or above playing.. players that had won Big open tournys but didnt take the cash so they could play Am Worlds.. To allow these open players to play Am with those ratings and then tell us its trophy only.. Then they can kiss my @%% .. I hope they get a low turn out and I will be spreading the word to the crew I was goin to travel with.. What a joke

I don't know that a smear campaign is the best way to handle the situation.

Played my one and only Am Worlds in 2003. Finished 13th with the goal to finish in the top 10. I am sure I was beat by players that had won Open events. I may have won Open events at non-sanctioned events.

Have no clue what my payout was? Do know that I won the long drive contest, I have the trophy to prove that.

I know the players pack is going to be off the hook. The courses are going to be sweet. The experience will last a life time.
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  #36  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:41 AM
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captain50 captain50 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRaider View Post
Already had a house booked for worlds.. now with this BS .. i will not be goin to worlds .. for I will not pay over 1500 like i did last yr to travel and compete within a division that my RATING is at and not be able to play for anything .. when the top 20 of last yr we had I believe 8-10 players at 990 rating or above playing.. players that had won Big open tournys but didnt take the cash so they could play Am Worlds.. To allow these open players to play Am with those ratings and then tell us its trophy only.. Then they can kiss my @%% .. I hope they get a low turn out and I will be spreading the word to the crew I was goin to travel with.. What a joke
If you actually read Jeremy's statement as opposed to going by the thread title, you would find out that there will be payouts for the winners and top finishers in adds. Here is the part of Jeremy's post dealing with the payout issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamic Discs View Post
At the end of the event, there will be the finals and awards given out to the top finishers. These players will receive a trophy basket, or mini trophy basket, along with additional payout that can be used at the event or at the ease of your computer when back home through our online store that stocks just about everything disc golf.

If you are looking to win or place high in your respective division and make a personal gain by receiving additional payout, you still will! We just donít see the need to pay out 250 of 500 amateur players.
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  #37  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:23 AM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Down View Post
I love the idea of not paying out 50%. What I dont like is when a TD says you get a player pack value worth more than your entry is always bogus. The put five sticker in $25 in value right there.. a shirt $25 more, yeah right, 3 discs @$60 come on, and a stool @$45 no I dont think so. The actual values are no where near what you get.
That's usually the way it is....but I take it you haven't played a DD event. I've never talked to a single player who walked away from one of their events who didn't feel like they got a lot more than they paid in. That goes for gear and the experience.

Mr. Raider- Stay in Cali bro. You're not cut out for Kansas life. We don't fold like laundry at the first sign of competition.
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  #38  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:59 AM
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rusch_bag rusch_bag is offline
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I don't know how this wasn't done years ago. Smart man. Name another sport where amateurs get paid out anyway.
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  #39  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:03 AM
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MrRaider MrRaider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteezeOG View Post
That's usually the way it is....but I take it you haven't played a DD event. I've never talked to a single player who walked away from one of their events who didn't feel like they got a lot more than they paid in. That goes for gear and the experience.

Mr. Raider- Stay in Cali bro. You're not cut out for Kansas life. We don't fold like laundry at the first sign of competition.
no you dont fold up like laundry.. you guys fly away with your tornados almost every year and then Oh well we goin to rebuild and again and again and again.. real bright peeps out there lol .. I might just go play de laveaga or head up to lake tahoe and play all those beautiful courses we have up there.. competition, ya i played am worlds last yr and top 20% were pro's playin Am.. enjoy tornado season KS
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  #40  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:07 AM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRaider View Post
no you dont fold up like laundry.. you guys fly away with your tornados almost every year and then Oh well we goin to rebuild and again and again and again.. real bright peeps out there lol .. I might just go play de laveaga or head up to lake tahoe and play all those beautiful courses we have up there.. competition, ya i played am worlds last yr and top 20% were pro's playin Am.. enjoy tornado season KS

Will do. We'll save you some brotato salad if you change your mind.
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