#41  
Old 03-23-2013, 07:21 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 18.8
Courses Played: 114
Posts: 6,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Squishy View Post
Back to the pdga payout tables:
Even if nothing else changed it still might be good to keep up with the times and implement a more sliding scale, the current formula of could just be changed to the number of players in a division instead of the tier of the event.
something like: 10 or less players 50% 11-30 40% 31-50 33% 51+ 25% etc.
Like smoothing bumps in a rug, you fix one problem and another emerges.

Assuming you're still paying out something like 100%, in prizes and players packs---and if you're not, players will scream---a steeper payout table means even bigger prizes for the winners of Am divisions. That further aggravates the people who are offended that Ams win anything, and it gives greater incentive for players to not move up.

I think it was for these issues that the PDGA flattened the payout scale, and created so many Am divisions (so they're smaller, thus a smaller payout to winner). At least in part.

When I began there were two Am divisions (not counting gender/age divisions), and payouts were about the top 33%. So the trend has been away from both.

Now, if you didn't keep the 100% payout but let the TD keep an increasing share of the entry, your sliding scale might work better. But there'd be a whole new set of screams from the gallery.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:14 AM
Jashwa Jashwa is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Palatine, IL
Years Playing: 9.9
Courses Played: 88
Posts: 33
The PDGA article on true amateurism mentions that DG has an amateur payout structure that is out of the norm compared to other sports and that there are "many good reasons why other sports use a true amateur model." After this, the article completely STOPS discussing this point, when in reality I believe it is the heart of the discussion.

Conforming to payout structures of other sports for the sake of conventionality is NOT the way to grow the sport of disc golf. We need to fully understand WHY these payout strucutres work for those sports and examine why they might/might not work for disc golf.

I am sitting on the edge of my seat to hear sound arguments on how this move is beneficial to disc golf, but until then I am skeptical.


Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:23 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 18.8
Courses Played: 114
Posts: 6,754
Rather than examining why almost every other amateur sport thrives without paying winners, wouldn't it be easier to consider why disc golf can't?

If it's true that it can't?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:34 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 18.8
Courses Played: 114
Posts: 6,754
---Then again, if the PDGA really wants to promote True Amateurism, wouldn't it make sense to entirely remove the Am payout requirements for all tiers?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:44 AM
Jay Dub's Avatar
Jay Dub Jay Dub is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Years Playing: 34.1
Courses Played: 80
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,055
Send a message via Yahoo to Jay Dub
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
---Then again, if the PDGA really wants to promote True Amateurism, wouldn't it make sense to entirely remove the Am payout requirements for all tiers?
Yes it would.

IMO if disc golf wants to grow as a sport the amateurs have got to be treated like amateurs. No payouts, only the top 3-5 in each division to be rewarded trophies and the players package does not have to have the same value as your entry fee.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:57 AM
Jashwa Jashwa is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Palatine, IL
Years Playing: 9.9
Courses Played: 88
Posts: 33
ummm see below.

Last edited by Jashwa; 03-23-2013 at 09:00 AM. Reason: i am stupid and relatively inexperienced on these forums. how do i delete?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:59 AM
Jashwa Jashwa is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Palatine, IL
Years Playing: 9.9
Courses Played: 88
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Rather than examining why almost every other amateur sport thrives without paying winners, wouldn't it be easier to consider why disc golf can't?

If it's true that it can't?

Well, to say that almost every other amateur sport thrives without paying winners is wrong and it brings up another point that I have been meaning to introduce. There are probably hundreds of sports that use the true amateur system that do NOT thrive. The problem is that most of us probably haven't heard of them or are unfamiliar with their payout structure because they aren't thriving. Therefore, we have kind of a "biased sample" in that we can only base these decisions and opinions on the successful sports we have heard of.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:08 AM
Jashwa Jashwa is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Palatine, IL
Years Playing: 9.9
Courses Played: 88
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
Yes it would.

IMO if disc golf wants to grow as a sport the amateurs have got to be treated like amateurs. No payouts, only the top 3-5 in each division to be rewarded trophies and the players package does not have to have the same value as your entry fee.

Why do you think this will help grow the sport?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:27 AM
Jay Dub's Avatar
Jay Dub Jay Dub is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Years Playing: 34.1
Courses Played: 80
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,055
Send a message via Yahoo to Jay Dub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jashwa View Post
Why do you think this will help grow the sport?
Looking at it from an outsider, if I was an outsider, I would wonder why the people who are not pros are getting paid or rewarded the way the Ams in disc golf get rewarded. Having a true amateur structure would make disc golf come across as more of a serious sport than it's current image does. IMO.
Reply With Quote
 
  

  #50  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:06 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 25.1
Courses Played: 569
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,264
If the direction is toward "purifying" divisional meanings, then we also need to eliminate the fake pro divisions and amateurize players up to say 1020 rating with another am division (Expert) going from maybe 980 to 1020. This would also amateurize all Pro age based divisions who have no one with a rating above 1020. I don't see that happening. But it goes hand-in-hand if the PDGA wants to pursue a transition to traditional amateur divisions then our pros should be subject to similar changes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.