#571  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:24 AM
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papamullins papamullins is offline
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We did Deer Path last year. It's very well kept and comfortable. There's a jacuzzi between the two, although it wasn't in service while we were there.
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  #572  
Old 03-27-2013, 01:41 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstopper View Post
John, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on both points.
Puckstopper, you disagree on both points. Let me try the first point again. I said:

"Anyone who thinks Dave Hickerson is arrogant hasn't met him."

That's a very simple and clear statement, and the facts back up that statement. The only people who have called Dave arrogant, including you and Ambroze, have not met Dave. That's it. End of issue.

In your counter-argument, you go straight to your interpretation of Dave's e-mail. That is a main discussion point of this thread, but I never mentioned Dave's e-mail.

The irony is that we're having a big debate about how to understand someone's written words. You're obviously a smart guy, so I would just ask you to please read more carefully.

Thanks,
John
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  #573  
Old 03-27-2013, 01:52 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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By the way, it also seems to be true that everyone who HAS met Dave considers him to be personable and humble.

Based on that fact, and based on my extensive dealings with Dave and Candy -- who have become wonderful friends of ours -- I urge everyone to resist the urge to rush to judgment based on a single e-mail. But it's a free country.

Puckstopper, as for your second area of disagreement with me, you make a good point that business e-mails are not subject to the same netiquette rules as personal e-mails. But for now I will refrain from further comment on that issue until I have more facts. As at least one alert reader noticed, we have never seen Ambroze's original e-mail to Dave, so we don't know what Dave was responding to.

Also, did anyone else notice that when Ambroze quoted Dave's e-mail, it started without capitalization:

"we are two private courses..."

That could just be a simple typo on Dave's part. It could also be that there is more to that e-mail that we have yet to see. I, for one, will not make a judgment on that e-mail without knowing more.
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  #574  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:00 PM
mndiscg mndiscg is offline
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People who look bad after this: ambroze, puckstopper

People/Parties who look good after this: Selah, John, Dave

I probably won't play Selah for awhile because I live far away and have no reason to go to Texas but this stupid argument has not painted Selah or Dave in a bad light at all for me. He answered the questions and IMO wasn't overly patronizing or arrogant about it. This borders on slandering IMO.
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  #575  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:08 PM
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jsc430 jsc430 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mndiscg View Post
People who look bad after this: ambroze, puckstopper

People/Parties who look good after this: Selah, John, Dave

I probably won't play Selah for awhile because I live far away and have no reason to go to Texas but this stupid argument has not painted Selah or Dave in a bad light at all for me. He answered the questions and IMO wasn't overly patronizing or arrogant about it. This borders on slandering IMO.
You come down and play Selah and I'm come up and play Hyzer Creek. Then we'll have some real drama on our hands
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  #576  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:21 PM
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jongoff09 jongoff09 is online now
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To get back to discussion about the courses...I'm surprised everyone seems to be hating #14 Lakeside. Sure, the first time I played it, it seemed impossible, but the more I play it, the more I figure it out. Had reasonable putts for 3 the last two times I played it in a singles round. Don't bite off more than you can chew, I throw mids off the tee to stay far enough back and have a variety of options to the basket. I need to get back there and birdie that sucker.

Also, the more I play it, the more I like Creekside (unless there is a 30mph headwind on 17 & 18). I like Lakeside better, but the only big negative I can say about Creekside is that it is next to Lakeside. Actually, that's not even true, I love the contrasting ways you have to play both courses, and playing them back to back is fun. You can say that there are field holes out there, but the trees are large enough and in just the right places to make you have to place your throw in a good position. You can get away with a little more, but the length and other factors like basket placement still make you execute.

I enjoy #10 Creekside. I throw one of the two hyzer routs, never considered the inside rout. I joked with my partner that John will put a mando on a tree to keep people like me from avoiding all the trees there. That round I threw into the field and then threw over the trees to the opening of the peninsula to the basket.
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  #577  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:35 PM
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After reading that email I'm never driving to Selah and paying $50 to play one round, never ever....







.... I'm driving to Selah paying $50, staying all day and playing as many rounds as possible.
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  #578  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:40 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by jongoff09 View Post
To get back to discussion about the courses...
Now there's an idea I can get behind.

Quote:
I'm surprised everyone seems to be hating #14 Lakeside. Sure, the first time I played it, it seemed impossible, but the more I play it, the more I figure it out. Had reasonable putts for 3 the last two times I played it in a singles round. Don't bite off more than you can chew, I throw mids off the tee to stay far enough back and have a variety of options to the basket. I need to get back there and birdie that sucker.
As I posted on our Facebook page last night, we are actually putting together an in-depth video explaining the most complex and misunderstood hole I've ever done, which is Lakeside #14. It sounds like you've found the key: keep the driver in the bag, and hit one of the three landing areas (you can see them on the tee sign). If you do that, I guarantee you will have at least one clean and fair route to the pin.

Reading all the recent criticism of that hole, I actually started to wonder if I had missed something. But when I got to Selah, I saw exactly what I wanted to see. I'm not surprised that other people can't see it, because it's not something they're used to, so I figured a video would be appropriate. It'll take a few weeks to edit it, but it'll clearly show how the hole works.

Quote:
Also, the more I play it, the more I like Creekside (unless there is a 30mph headwind on 17 & 18). I like Lakeside better, but the only big negative I can say about Creekside is that it is next to Lakeside. Actually, that's not even true, I love the contrasting ways you have to play both courses, and playing them back to back is fun. You can say that there are field holes out there, but the trees are large enough and in just the right places to make you have to place your throw in a good position. You can get away with a little more, but the length and other factors like basket placement still make you execute.
On the "field" holes, the second shot on #7, and the second two shots on #8 are both very generous. That's pretty much the only time that happens on all 36 holes (except the second shot on Lakeside #16 if you have a big drive). I thought players would appreciate the chance to air it out a few times without much risk, but I won't make that mistake again.

(Don't worry, I will make that "mistake" again.)

Quote:
I enjoy #10 Creekside. I throw one of the two hyzer routs, never considered the inside rout. I joked with my partner that John will put a mando on a tree to keep people like me from avoiding all the trees there. That round I threw into the field and then threw over the trees to the opening of the peninsula to the basket.
If you want to drive out to the short tee and go big hyzer around everything from there, more power to you. You'll never see that mando. People having a hard time with Creekside #10 should know that we finally removed about 10 trees on that second shot (or first shot from the short tee) just before the tournament. That right side route now looks just how it was meant to look. Sorry it took so long. Also took out three key trees on the lefty route of #11.

Last edited by johnrhouck; 03-27-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  #579  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:30 PM
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jongoff09 jongoff09 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Now there's an idea I can get behind.


If you want to drive out to the short tee and go big hyzer around everything from there, more power to you. You'll never see that mando. People having a hard time with Creekside #10 should know that we finally removed about 10 trees on that second shot (or first shot from the short tee) just before the tournament. That right side route now looks just how it was meant to look. Sorry it took so long. Also took out three key trees on the lefty route of #11.
I didn't really figure there would ever be one there. I said that because you took the big hyzer on 18 Lakeside away when that was a popular route during Paige and EMac's tourney. I know the reason for that was safety though (or was it really so we would "man up" ).

I love seeing the courses evolve. Even from my first rounds there last fall, I've seen the trees go in or out for improvements. If you don't mind me asking, what were the thought behind putting trees in/near the existing first landing zone on 15 Lakeside? I found that to be one of the more difficult par-5s without water in play, and later it is going to be a real brute.

I love the par-5s at Selah. They are all a little different, and well designed ones are tough to come by like them.
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  #580  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:12 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jongoff09 View Post
I didn't really figure there would ever be one there.
No, I knew you were kidding. But not everyone else does.

Quote:
I said that because you took the big hyzer on 18 Lakeside away when that was a popular route during Paige and EMac's tourney. I know the reason for that was safety though (or was it really so we would "man up" ).
Honestly, it was both.

Quote:
I love seeing the courses evolve. Even from my first rounds there last fall, I've seen the trees go in or out for improvements. If you don't mind me asking, what were the thought behind putting trees in/near the existing first landing zone on 15 Lakeside? I found that to be one of the more difficult par-5s without water in play, and later it is going to be a real brute.
I'll dig up a tee sign and give you a longer answer later, but the short answer is that if you want to take the two-shot route and play for eagle, the idea is that you'll need a 400' drive. If you can do that, you'll be past all those new trees and will have about another 400' to the pin.

If you don't want to try that tight straight (downhill) 400' drive, you can play the three-shot route, which starts with a drive to the right side down by the creek.

Quote:
I love the par-5s at Selah. They are all a little different, and well designed ones are tough to come by like them.
I'm so glad to hear that. There are seven of them out there, and most of them would go in my top 10 favorite par fives. The thing I like best is that most of them have legitimate eagle routes that require and reward great skill and execution.

By the way, how is Troy feeling?
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