#21  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:20 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The skills in the pools producing the ratings has no bearing on the SSA. A higher rated pool playing the same layout in the morning could produce a higher or lower SSA than a lower rated pool playing that same layout in the "same" conditions in the afternoon. It doesn't matter what the TD says on the report. We have automated decision rules based on the number of propagators and the difference in SSA in the two rounds that determines whether the scores get combined or are kept separate for official ratings.
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  #22  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:24 PM
ScottyLove ScottyLove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The skills in the pools producing the ratings has no bearing on the SSA. A higher rated pool playing the same layout in the morning could produce a higher or lower SSA than a lower rated pool playing that same layout in the "same" conditions in the afternoon. It doesn't matter what the TD says on the report. We have automated decision rules based on the number of propagators and the difference in SSA in the two rounds that determines whether the scores get combined or are kept separate for official ratings.
As a technical software kind of guy myself, I like the sounds of that! I'll patiently await the to see what the official results yield.
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  #23  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:57 PM
nickrew1 nickrew1 is offline
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Do doubles tourney's ratings count toward individual ratings?
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  #24  
Old 04-29-2013, 11:23 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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There are no offical ratings produced for doubles rounds.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:57 AM
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Allurex Allurex is online now
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Yeah I believe that Doubles Round Ratings are just pumped into a calculation of estimated SSA for the course, no official ratings given like for other events.
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:31 AM
krupicka krupicka is online now
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Chuck- Yes you are technically right that the skills in the pool have no bearing (directly) on the SSA. BUT I have seen many instances over the years where higher rated pools produce higher ratings. This is mainly due to the fact that in the lower rated pools there tend to be more players that are rapidly improving and their ratings are lagging their actual ability. This then depresses the SSA.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:48 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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krupicka - it's an Urban Myth that's hard to stomp out but there is no statistical basis that the ratings of the pool matter to determine the SSA. People want to believe they'll get better ratings when they play in a higher rated pool but it's not true overall. We did an extensive check back around 2005 and tweaked the formula to account for a slight bias where higher rated pools got slightly better ratings. But since then it's not only 50/50 but when higher and lower rated pools play the same course in the same event at different times, the rounds are usually averaged together so any difference in either direction is wiped out.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:26 AM
krupicka krupicka is online now
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When we were doing split day events Upper on one day and lower on the other, we saw it pretty much every weekend. It wasn't a lot, but it was there. We split our events differently now and so no longer see the issue.

Of course this only shows up in the unofficial ratings since the official process now averages the rounds together.
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  #29  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
krupicka - it's an Urban Myth that's hard to stomp out but there is no statistical basis that the ratings of the pool matter to determine the SSA. People want to believe they'll get better ratings when they play in a higher rated pool but it's not true overall. We did an extensive check back around 2005 and tweaked the formula to account for a slight bias where higher rated pools got slightly better ratings. But since then it's not only 50/50 but when higher and lower rated pools play the same course in the same event at different times, the rounds are usually averaged together so any difference in either direction is wiped out.
I'm gonna chip in...

Sugaw is a great example as to why the ratings system is not as accurate as one would think. When the clash came, lower rated players played Sugaw. The lowest scores were 2 people with 50's (rating came out to around 980ish)

When the highest rated pros play there, they don't shoot in the mid to low 40s. It just doesn't happen. MJs handicap at this course is around a 47 and he plays at a 1030ish rating. It just doesn't make sense that 3 strokes is near a 50 point swing. Also, look at Worlds and previous tournaments there. A 49 is always a 1000 rated round, BUT NOT AT THE CLASH. You can blame whether all you want, but a few degrees difference doesn't change this course. You either play it well, or play it poorly. Hardly is there an in between.

I have to believe that amateurs are getting better than pros at a much faster rate, therefore making it where pro's are a much better propagator that am's. The fact that a course can have a 10 point rating difference between rounds makes no sense. The idea that "conditions are never ideal round to round" makes your statistics not statistics anymore. If you want to go in that direction, conditions are not ideal hole to hole and each hole should be incorporated into ratings.

However, I don't have a solution and I still enjoy having a rating. But I only see me shooting my first 1000 rated round when one day I have a good round and some top players happen to be there.
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2013, 09:09 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The ratings take into account the stress level of the players which is different among divisions depending on the tier of the event. That's why you'll see a lower SSA in some leagues for the same layout that was played in an A or B-tier a month later. That's not a problem but a strength in the system that it automatically accounts for increasing pressure on players in higher tiers. Note that a 20-point difference is still less than 5% variance in the ratings. We are more impressed when a player nails a 30-footer for the win at an NT than in a rec round or league night. This differences in pressure changes the challenge of the exact same course in similar weather which is shown when the SSA is calculated. So "yes" you might get a better rating in a higher tier event on courses you know if the pressure doesn't get to you.
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