#11  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:48 AM
rphancock1 rphancock1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
the only point for the runup is the turning of the hips and the easier reachback. The speed added is neglectable. It's all about bringing your hips and back and shoulders into the throw.

As sidewinder said, it adds around 15% distance.
This was my impression, having read Blake and Bradley and Dan Beato. For me, it wouldn't be worth it for that amount of distance alone, but how about timing? I feel like I need some sort of trigger, because when I turn my back and reach back with the disc, I hold that position for a second and sometimes I feel like I get stuck. Like I don't know which body part to move first, and that's when the throw goes awry. Usually it starts to happen about midway through a round, when I've been making several throws. Like when you say a word too many times and it starts to sound funny.. that's how it feels. I've tried focusing on my heel, and starting the throw from bringing my right heel down. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I'll probably work on a runup at some point just out of curiosity, since like 95% of pros do it. But I've been thinking that maybe throwing without moving my feet at all was the wrong way to go.. making it harder on myself. I do believe based on the reading I've done, and the feeling of some throws where everything comes together that it's possible to get distance around 400' without moving my feet, but maybe it's not the easiest way.

Again, I haven't been playing that long, so it may just be a muscle memory thing that hasn't developed yet. But it's fairly frustrating and I'd like to get it fixed, haha.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2013, 08:23 AM
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Smigles Smigles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rphancock1 View Post
For me, it wouldn't be worth it for that amount of distance alone, but how about timing?

I do believe based on the reading I've done, and the feeling of some throws where everything comes together that it's possible to get distance around 400' without moving my feet, but maybe it's not the easiest way.

Again, I haven't been playing that long, so it may just be a muscle memory thing that hasn't developed yet. But it's fairly frustrating and I'd like to get it fixed, haha.
whats wrong with throwing 15% further ? that would be 460 instead of 400 feet, or 345 instead of 300...

about timing and muscle memory : you are still building that up. The more you practice, the faster it will come. But just think that for every element you want to add, you will have to practice again all over. So better start practicing the proper form instead of getting good with something and then having to re-learn it all.
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:04 AM
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dashiellx dashiellx is offline
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Personally, I think having a consistent standstill is the first step to good technique. Once you are consistent with you standstill form, add a single step. Once you are consistent with that, add a second step, etc.... I'm not working on the second step of my "run up". Single step forward then an x step. Still working on getting consistent here, but when it works I've seen improvement in my distance.
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:10 AM
rocthecourse rocthecourse is offline
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Based on the distances you are throwing you might be throwing nose up. If you bring the nose down you should be able to gain some distance. I know that's not what you are asking about but it is something to work on.
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:21 AM
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knettles knettles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
^ Agreed - the reduction in effort, due to the additional power gained through stepping into the shot, can definitely result in better accuracy. But why is the additional power required in the first place? Because you're too far from the target to reach it very comfortably from a standstill. At this point it becomes a bit of a circular argument.

How does a run-up lead to increased accuracy? Because it allows you to generate the power needed to get the disc the desired distance with less effort. With less effort comes increased accuracy.

Inside the circle (where accuracy is paramount) no one runs up. The farther one is from the target, the more likely it they'll use a run-up, or at least a couple of steps.
This is definitely true, but there's one thing I haven't seen anyone say yet. The best analogy I can think of is juggling (random, I know). In juggling, you can start a juggling pattern (cold start), or go from a base pattern into a more complex pattern (hot start). The hot start gets your muscles moving and "in the groove". I think of a standstill drive as a cold start and a runup drive as a hot start. The runup helps me get into the motion of the drive, rather than just starting the throw from nothing. That can increase power and accuracy.

However, I've seen some people that could bomb from a standstill. And learning a good standstill throw will help improve your form overall.
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  #16  
Old 07-28-2013, 06:08 PM
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The Hammer The Hammer is offline
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The only benefit I feel I get from a run-up is allowing me to set the rhythm of my throw, and to load my hips more from the x-step.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:17 PM
gamblor01 gamblor01 is offline
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Disclaimer: I don't throw amazing drives. My max is about 300 but that is only with absolutely perfect form and snap which I am not consistent with yet. I probably more often throw about 220-260.

That being said, my advice to all of my friends that are just starting out is to ditch the name "run up" and call it "footwork" instead. The name "run up" implies that you should be running, which I strongly discourage for newbies. If you have been playing for years and have the mechanics and muscle memory down then feel free to actually run. I think newbies should slow down as it will help them solidify the rest of the mechanics.

In fact, I was in a slump lately and for several rounds couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I eventually slowed down and VIOLA! My drives instantly got better. Why? I believe that subconsciously I was expecting the momentum of my body to somehow propel the disc and thus I failed to snap it out of my hand. Also I believe that I was neglecting to really pull the disc across my body, and failing to focus on weight transfer. Both of these led to throws with less than optimal rotation on the disc. Obviously, both my accuracy and my distance were abysmal because of this.

I would say the point of footwork is to get your body into the optimal position to really launch the disc. Even stepping at a slow speed (I do a cross-step in my footwork) will help you turn/reach back further, and spin your hips better. It also allows for a great shift in your body weight so that you're not throwing off of your back foot.

In realty they say that everything is about "Location! Location! Location!" but in disc golf it's all about "Rotation! Rotation! Rotation!" The more you can impart spin on that disc, the better it will do what it was designed to do.




My advice to some newbies that I have played with lately for driving:

1. WALK don't run

2. Keep the disc close to your body -- release more like you're pulling a cord to start a mower straight across your chest rather than some swooping, circular motion far away from your chest

3. Throw when your weight is centered, or just at the point that you are leaning to your front foot. Do not throw with your weight on your back foot.

4. Pull the disc back across your chest, not down at your waist. This allows for a more level release. If you are pulling it back at waist level then the natural follow-through in your arm will be an upward motion, essentially forcing a high, hyzer shot. Doing this is bad form as your discs will basically just go high into the air, fade hard, and will not travel very far. Of course if you intend to hyzer up and over some trees then pulling back low is what you want! For a nice, even release -- intended for maximum distance regardless of height -- you don't want a really low pullback.

5. Don't try to overpower the disc. Just make sure to SNAP it out at the very end and let the disc do the work. Your arm shouldn't be sore after playing one round or you are trying too hard. It's better to snap the disc for maximum rotation than to try and "push" the disc through the air.
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:51 PM
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Monkeypaws Monkeypaws is offline
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Throwing from a standstill, then slowly adding x-step and power is a great way to start with accuracy, then slowly add distance. At least, that's how it's worked for me.

It's also great way to learn how your discs behave as you power them up and down.

I'm probably throwing for less distance now than I was a few months ago, but the increased accuracy is much more valuable as you play harder courses.
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2013, 09:29 PM
rphancock1 rphancock1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocthecourse View Post
Based on the distances you are throwing you might be throwing nose up. If you bring the nose down you should be able to gain some distance. I know that's not what you are asking about but it is something to work on.
Yeah, some throws more than others. I can't really tell unless it obviously goes high and hyzers out, but that's an obvious miss. Otherwise, they travel pretty flat about 10' high for 300'. How can I tell if the nose is up if it looks flat? Simply by distance? I thought 330 was pretty good for a standstill, so I hadn't really considered nose angle being a problem. I'll try and get it further down and see if it helps. I've mostly been working on my hip/shoulder rotation, and not arming it.

Sounds like I should work on taking some steps next too. Thanks!
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:04 PM
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ohtobediscing ohtobediscing is offline
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Forgive me.

Benefits of a runup for the average chucker:
1. It alerts the local fauna to the presence of danger---your throws.
2. It terrifies young children and the Father-Knows-Best familial type, keeping spectating to a minimum.
3. It creates nausea, disorientation and a fear of the unknown among your competitors.
4. It has been cited as evidence for decreasing park budgets and closing park DGCs.
5. It has a fatwa against it.

Now THAT'S a troll.

Though in all seriousness, SLOW runups[almost walkups] are the way to go.
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