#31  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:37 AM
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onemilemore onemilemore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The measurement should take into account the intended skill level of the hole. If majority of players in the skill level would be expected to reach the pin, then measure straight line. If it's beyond a reachable hole for a skill level, then first measure to their landing area then up to the pin. This is even more dramatic when the hole traverses a ravine where at 325 feet tee-to-pin for gold level might be 375 for Red level players who have to throw to the bottom of the valley and back up.
This is exactly the kind of hole to which I was referring. Thanks for the clarification.

And thanks for the paint job, scarp!
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  #32  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Chuck,

You don't have to be sorry, you are what you are (and believe you have to defend yourself to the nth) and we'll have to accept you for such imperfections.
You can muddy the waters all you want with your "skill level" banter but the distance between two points (the tee and the pin) is ONE number. IFFF we choose to measure it via the center-line of the fairway, fine. Fine too is the tightest "possible flight" line. I'm sure there could be others...that is what this thread is about... but to tout that a hole's distance should be listed via "skill levels" is not logical. Let's leave a very imprecise concept - that of 'skill levels' (whatever THAT is) out of a precise discussion - length.

Karl
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:51 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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USGA marking works fine for ball golf where they haven't needed to develop as sophisticated definitions of skill levels as DG. We've done it because DG is different enough in several ways and has different technical needs for design. The only real difference in measurement between BG and DG comes about in weak doglegs where in DG we might go straight line measurement because higher skilled players can throw that line instead of following the designated fairway like ball golf does regardless of skill level. Seems to make more sense when you have the knowledge.
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2014, 12:41 PM
Vonbeezy1 Vonbeezy1 is offline
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The general consensus seems to be one straight line from the tee to the basket. This is my home course http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=234#
If you look at hole 4 from the am tee, it is a dogleg right with a very small gap through the woods. This is the only hole I had a question about. I will create a poll so that I can gather the majority opinion and do my measurements that way
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  #35  
Old 04-03-2014, 12:48 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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If it's not a legitimately throwable (not accidental) fairway, it's incorrect regardless of any poll.
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2014, 01:00 PM
Vonbeezy1 Vonbeezy1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
If it's not a legitimately throwable (not accidental) fairway, it's incorrect regardless of any poll.
It is a legit throwable route for people who have accuracy. I throw that route all the time and make it 3/4 if not more. However, most people opt for the out and around. Is there a thread that shows you how to create a poll? I am having trouble figuring it out. I see the poll option but am clueless after that
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  #37  
Old 04-03-2014, 01:16 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
... but the distance between two points (the tee and the pin) is ONE number. IFFF we choose to measure it via the center-line of the fairway, fine. Fine too is the tightest "possible flight" line. I'm sure there could be others...that is what this thread is about... but to tout that a hole's distance should be listed via "skill levels" is not logical. Let's leave a very imprecise concept - that of 'skill levels' (whatever THAT is) out of a precise discussion - length.
I'm in line with this... pick a conventention, whatever it is and go with it.
Don't leve it up to interpretation. If the convention is along the intended path, so be it. If it's shortest distance, so be that, just arrive at a universal method and let each player player interpret what it means to them in terms of effective length from tee to pin based on the route they want to take.
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  #38  
Old 04-03-2014, 01:34 PM
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threevok threevok is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemilemore View Post
So let's say you have a hole with a field shot off the tee that leads to a steep hill, with the basket being at the top of the hill. There is a reasonable landing zone at the bottom of the hill. (I tried to diagram this, but the formatting wouldn't let me. But the shape of the hole is basically ___^ with the basket at the top of the point.) A good drive gets you to about the bottom of the hill, maybe a bit higher.

Do you use a range finder to go straight from tee to basket, or would this be measured like a dogleg hole, but vertical? Personally I would go with the dogleg type of measurement, but I am curious if others agree.
It would have to be a pretty steep hill (I'm sure there are some doozies) to make much of a difference between a straight line horizontal distance and straight line from bottom to top of hill distance. Perhaps that is not what you are referring to?

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  #39  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:07 PM
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cjrogus cjrogus is offline
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Here's some answers from when I wondered this a while back. I'm making new teepads for my course for my capstone project. overall vote seems to be for as the crow flys.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...hlight=cjrogus
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2014, 12:28 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The official way to measure was asked about and the answer has been there as a standard for many years. I would hope our goal in this sport is consistency of procedures for fundamental elements such as the way we use feet instead of meters for hole length at least in the U.S. Both the Course Designers group and the PDGA have converged on the measurement process based on following the fairway like ball golf but in rare cases taking into account direct power routes when that occurs.

Here are a few mental exercises to consider. We have a square barn 150 feet on a side with a tee at one corner and pin at the other. You cannot throw over it. Should the hole length be 212 feet measuring as the crow flies (diagonally through the barn) or 300 feet going around the barn? You're driving in a town with the common rectangular grid pattern for roads. Does your GPS give your distance as the crow flies between two points diagonally across town or the actual distance that would show up on your odometer?

We have a rectangular pond 500 feet by 200 feet with tee and pin diagonally across it each 20 feet from each corner. No one can throw that crow flies 578 feet from tee to pin. How should you measure the hole distance, presumably as a gold level tee? Let's say Gold level can safely throw 300 in most conditions. (It doesn't mean they can't throw farther, but that's their "safe" minimum for crossing water with enough clearance). This type of hole would likely be gold level so you measure to where their typical landing zone would be diagonally cutting across the corner of the pond at the 300 ft point along the bank then straight line to the pin.

That's the same way they would measure it in ball golf if the pond was those dimensions in yards instead of feet. It's a virtual dogleg created by the driving distance for the skill level the tee was created for in both BG and DG.

Bottom line: Follow Flyable Fairway
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