#41  
Old 04-03-2014, 08:19 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The rule doesn't say "your mark" but "uniquely marked". So when you borrow another disc, you can just tell others that this disc you're throwing is marked with Jim's name.
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  #42  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:12 AM
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KniceZ KniceZ is offline
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Just play "devils advocate"

The way most of these posts are reading the reason the disc shouldn't be retrieved is that you can't go OB, get back and throw in 30 sec. 804.01-A states "a maximum of 30 sec is allowed to each player to make a throw after (2) the player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc". It doesn't say "to arrive at the spot of the next throw" or after establishing position. Just to be picky - the player hasn't "arrived at the disc" if they are not allowed to go get the disc.

Sorry but part of my job is dealing with contractors and whether they have satisfied a contract and I've lost many arguments about EXACT wording.
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  #43  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:15 AM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KniceZ View Post
Just play "devils advocate"

The way most of these posts are reading the reason the disc shouldn't be retrieved is that you can't go OB, get back and throw in 30 sec. 804.01-A states "a maximum of 30 sec is allowed to each player to make a throw after (2) the player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc". It doesn't say "to arrive at the spot of the next throw" or after establishing position. Just to be picky - the player hasn't "arrived at the disc" if they are not allowed to go get the disc.

Sorry but part of my job is dealing with contractors and whether they have satisfied a contract and I've lost many arguments about EXACT wording.
What if you throw in the water?

I agree that's poor wording. Instead of "arrived at the disc" it should be something along the lines of "established the lie."

The intent of the rule is clear though. Imagine if you through down a huge OB ravine. You have to go get the disc from the bottom, but once you get to it, you've got 30 seconds to get back inbounds and throw! Go!!
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  #44  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:25 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KniceZ View Post
Just play "devils advocate"

The way most of these posts are reading the reason the disc shouldn't be retrieved is that you can't go OB, get back and throw in 30 sec. 804.01-A states "a maximum of 30 sec is allowed to each player to make a throw after (2) the player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc". It doesn't say "to arrive at the spot of the next throw" or after establishing position. Just to be picky - the player hasn't "arrived at the disc" if they are not allowed to go get the disc.

Sorry but part of my job is dealing with contractors and whether they have satisfied a contract and I've lost many arguments about EXACT wording.
Most are noting the 30 seconds with regard to players who choose to or must re-throw from their previous lie. There is no time taken to "arrive" at the lie since they are already there.

But you make a good point about "arriving at the disc". In most cases of an OB throw, you have to locate and determine the status of the thrown disc as part of a) establishing that it is in fact OB and b) determining from where to play the next throw. So if you've located the disc and verified that it is OB, there's no reason not to pick it up. And once it's in your possession, there's nothing to prevent you from throwing it again.

Still waiting to hear why a player should be prevented from throwing it again.
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  #45  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:37 AM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
In most cases of an OB throw, you have to locate and determine the status of the thrown disc as part of a) establishing that it is in fact OB and b) determining from where to play the next throw.
This is a key point that was missing upthread. You can't start the 30 sec clock on someone if they haven't even established their lie yet. A lot of times you have to locate the disc to figure out its trajectory so the group can settle on exactly where it crossed the OB line.

Also...The 30 sec clock can be re-started at the discretion of the player, in the event of distractions. So there could be more than 30 sec to play with.
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  #46  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:46 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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"I'm distracted because I don't have my disc yet to throw again."

Last edited by Cgkdisc; 04-03-2014 at 09:50 AM.
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  #47  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:18 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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I've told people I'm being distratced the sound and feel of the wind. Sadly in our current rules, this is completely legal.
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  #48  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:50 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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I still contend that there's nothing in the rule that says the 30 second clock can be stopped once it is started. It only says the clock begins when the playing area is clear and free of distractions.

Of course, common sense dictates that sudden safety issues (like a pedestrian coming around a corner unexpectedly) are reason to not throw promptly and extend the 30 seconds, but barring that, the whole "distraction" thing is a stupid player crutch.
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  #49  
Old 04-04-2014, 10:10 AM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
I still contend that there's nothing in the rule that says the 30 second clock can be stopped once it is started. It only says the clock begins when the playing area is clear and free of distractions.

Of course, common sense dictates that sudden safety issues (like a pedestrian coming around a corner unexpectedly) are reason to not throw promptly and extend the 30 seconds, but barring that, the whole "distraction" thing is a stupid player crutch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
... You can't start the 30 sec clock on someone if they haven't even established their lie yet...

Also...The 30 sec clock can be re-started at the discretion of the player, in the event of distractions. So there could be more than 30 sec to play with.
And now we're getting off topic to another one, but the rule book does not say the "30-second clock" re-starts when there is a distraction during your allotted 30. It says you have 30 seconds once the area is clear of distractions. Yes, there may be a total of more than 30 seconds if a walker/jogger crosses the path, but not a true re-start. If there is a distraction after the "clock" was legitimately and appropriately started, say 20 seconds in, the player may wait for the distraction to clear (e.g. let the walker/runner in line with the potential throw clear). Once that distraction clears, there's only 10 seconds left, not a NEW 30 seconds. If you allowed a re-start then that would have been 50 seconds.
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  #50  
Old 04-04-2014, 10:22 AM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
And now we're getting off topic to another one, but the rule book does not say the "30-second clock" re-starts when there is a distraction during your allotted 30. It says you have 30 seconds once the area is clear of distractions. Yes, there may be a total of more than 30 seconds if a walker/jogger crosses the path, but not a true re-start. If there is a distraction after the "clock" was legitimately and appropriately started, say 20 seconds in, the player may wait for the distraction to clear (e.g. let the walker/runner in line with the potential throw clear). Once that distraction clears, there's only 10 seconds left, not a NEW 30 seconds. If you allowed a re-start then that would have been 50 seconds.
That's not at all what the rule book says. It says you have 30 seconds from the time the area is free of distractions. So by the exact letter of the rule, the "clock" never stops, never pauses, never restarts.
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