#51  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:34 PM
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Timber Timber is offline
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Olorin,

I agree with most of your opinions regarding Par.

The system I applied at Bluemont is somewhat similar to your Gold Close Range Par. If a Gold 1000 rated player (or anyone) Aced a specific tee to pin, I added two strokes making it a par three. Nineteen years of scoring history has helped me with this task. Utilizing my system, the best carded score on hole 1 at Bluemont from the Blue tee to the mound (D pin placement) is a three so I made it a par five.

Utilizing your system, the perfect drive on that hole lands near the Red tee, the perfect upshot makes it down the fairway and through the Mullberry tree landing at the base of the mound. Adding two close range strokes would make it a Par four.

I don't have time right now to analyze the historic scores on that hole from the final nines at the Cherry Blossom and Bruiser events but I am guessing that only a handful of threes (Eagles) have been carded on that hole out of 150+ tournament rounds. Most players consider a four as a birdie and a five is acceptable.

That hole should probably be a par four but I believe an eagle should be possible. If someone gets a double eagle then the par should be lowered.
--------------------------------------------
Giles Run had no history and the course is extremely rough, if not brutal, around the edges. As more scores are acquired and when players can complete a round without bloodloss, lost discs, ticks gained and heat exhaustion the pars will be adjusted closer to your Gold Close Range Par system.
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Burke Lake is an entity of it's own within Fairfax County. They ONLY want a recreational course coexisting in extremely close proximity to numerous other actiities. New players who buy DX plastic at the Rangers office and travelling players paying the $8 Park entrance fee pay their salary.

Politics has become a major issue and our local club recently lost our privilage of adding field holes for weekly events. I consider holes 1-6 and 18 to be unsafe and I seem to remember that you would not post your review of the course because of these issues. Luckily, the 27th annual Duck Golf Tournament in August is Grandfathered in for use of the field holes and the front nine holes will not be used.

Burke pars will be based on a mixture of your gold par method and my best shot plus two method but...
the Park management will have the final say on Recreational or Professional pars being posted and they will be printing/laminating the signs.

Does Par designation fall under
Disc Golf Course Design Goals
1. Satisfy the design requirements of the people and organizations who approve use of the land and fund the equipment for the course.

Another hurdle to changing the pars will be the "sharpie" vandals who disagree with the changes.
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  #52  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:42 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80playedin10states View Post
i respect your knowledge of the game olorin and your writing abilities, i just think that its a dead end discussion that is waste of time..
Thanks. I only keep posting because new people keep asking. I'm pretty sure that lots of regulars on here are pretty tired of my repeated posts with the same info from "the par guy", but as long as people keep asking I'll keep posting. I'll say unabashedly that I'm trying to get as many people as possible to use Gold CR Par.
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  #53  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:52 PM
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Timber Timber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olorin View Post
Timber,

Were you using the DGCD Hole Forecaster to get these scoring estimates? It usually works quite well.
Yes I did use the Hole Forecaster but the scores from the Wind Up's helped me improve the accuracy of the input.

Hope I have time to use it for Burke. Still need to work out the final graphics on that draft sign and then make 17 more signs.
edit
For now, I am applying best guess Pars to the sign graphics in case I don't have enough time to use the Hole Forecaster.

Last edited by Timber; 05-04-2009 at 02:57 PM. Reason: added last sentence
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  #54  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:59 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber View Post
Olorin,

I agree with most of your opinions regarding Par.

The system I applied at Bluemont is somewhat similar to your Gold Close Range Par. If a Gold 1000 rated player (or anyone) Aced a specific tee to pin, I added two strokes making it a par three. Nineteen years of scoring history has helped me with this task. Utilizing my system, the best carded score on hole 1 at Bluemont from the Blue tee to the mound (D pin placement) is a three so I made it a par five.

Utilizing your system, the perfect drive on that hole lands near the Red tee, the perfect upshot makes it down the fairway and through the Mullberry tree landing at the base of the mound. Adding two close range strokes would make it a Par four.

I don't have time right now to analyze the historic scores on that hole from the final nines at the Cherry Blossom and Bruiser events but I am guessing that only a handful of threes (Eagles) have been carded on that hole out of 150+ tournament rounds. Most players consider a four as a birdie and a five is acceptable.

That hole should probably be a par four but I believe an eagle should be possible. If someone gets a double eagle then the par should be lowered.
Is that long layout only used in tournaments?
There may be a forced layup with the drive that adds to the effective length. When I played the #1 Long tee in Dec 08, even for my low skill level, I remember thinking how hard it would be to get a drive to go as far as one would like because of the shape of the fairway and getting past the trees. I don't know enough about it to really comment, but if it is a par 4 then it's REALLY difficult. It seems like it's basically a tweener-- either a really tough par 4 or an easier par 5.

Quote:
Giles Run had no history and the course is extremely rough, if not brutal, around the edges. As more scores are acquired and when players can complete a round without bloodloss, lost discs, ticks gained and heat exhaustion the pars will be adjusted closer to your Gold Close Range Par system.
::Whipping sound on horse flesh::
Just for clarity, with the CR par philosophy, reasonable throws on the intended flight path would never go into any briar patches anyway so thorns don't even need to be in consideration when determining par. All that matters is the clear flight path to the basket.
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  #55  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:04 PM
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NovaDiscHead NovaDiscHead is offline
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"I consider holes 1-6 and 18 to be unsafe and I seem to remember that you would not post your review of the course because of these issues."




Timber, I think if the park authority would pull their collective heads out of their asses, we could improve safety on 1-6 and 18 by making a couple of simple changes-

1. Put Signs at the entrance of the mini railroad/carousel area that says "NO LAKE ACCESS". This should at least cut down on a good percentage of the cross traffic up Hole 6 and 2/1 and 18.

2. Put a fence between the path and Hole 2/3 and 18. I know this would cost them money they don't have, but couldn't we as a dg community raise funds to pay for one?

Thanks for the great work you and Tom are doing on Burke- I saw the pro tee pads being prepared for new concrete...that will make it that much better. One question- with the difficulty on 15, you guys going to ever make it a Par 4? I play only 3's, but most people I talk to consider a 3 on 15 to be exceptional, and not the rule.
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  #56  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:07 PM
80playedin10states 80playedin10states is offline
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i liked burke but it was mostly for the extra nine they set up...i would bet people shoot in the low 40's or even a 38-39 on the shorts there?
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:10 PM
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NovaDiscHead NovaDiscHead is offline
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I usually end up in the high 40's, but there's some regulars who

will get high 30's. The course is actually pretty challenging for what it is.

Hey Timber, any truth to the rumar that Pohic is getting re-done?
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  #58  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:24 PM
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Pohick is sitting on the edge of the stove for now.
Burke Tee signs, Fairfax County meeting regarding the Giles Run Wind Up, woodchip spreading/maintenance at Bluemont and helping ChunkDG with Franklin Park are on the front burners right now.

Late for work, read ya later...
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