#1  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:31 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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How to Build a Bag

Some might notice that I don't post in this forum a whole lot. The main reason is that most of the time the advice I'd give is almost exactly the same each time and I don't want to type it over and over again. So I thought I'd do a quick write up of that advice once.

First, required reading:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resour...ingadisc.shtml

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resour...coverlap.shtml

Those will cover a lot of questions people have about how to put a bag together.

Your goal as a beginner is to both improve technique and line shaping. Start with this:

Putter - 1 mold, preferably a stable, in most cases beaded putter in low end plastic that isn't flexible (e.g. S Wizard, KC Aviar, D Challenger, D Focus, S Voodoo, etc.)

Mid - 1 mold, neutral to slightly overstable (e.g. DX Roc, Buzzz, Shark, Cro, Element, there's like a million of them).

Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)

Overstable Driver - 1 mold, overstable by design, not because of speed (e.g. Banshee, Firebird, Predator, etc.)

* The Cheetah and Polaris are easiest to control for those throwing <320' or so and the Gazelle, Cyclone and Eagle start off on the overstable side, but are more controllable if you're throwing farther. There are a lot more options, but those are my favorites.

Ideally, you'll be able to shape any line from pure hyzers to pure anhyzers and all sorts of 'S' and straight shots in between. Being able to control all of those discs on full power drives is important.

I'd recommend that setup for anyone who can't perform all shots with those four discs. If you have more molds it's OK to use them in field practice when fixing technique issues, but sticking to those four molds for rounds and for learning line shaping will make it a lot easier.

Once you get good at that, don't want to improve anymore and/or are hitting ~250' with putters, ~300' with mids and 320'-350' with your fairway drivers there are a couple other discs that might help.

At that point add:

Moderately overstable driver - something stable by design, not just by speed, but not super overstable and faster than your control driver (e.g. OLF, Z/ESP Avenger, Champ/Star Starfire-X, PD, etc.)

Distance driver - something that goes far (speed 9 if your control drivers are closer to 320', speed 9-11 if your control drivers are 350+). Your choice here will depend a lot on where you are, and how happy you are with your technique. It seems to be the most personal choice, but also the least important one as this will most likely be your least used disc.

Optional straight control driver - Many people like adding a Teebird for straight shots and as a "barometer" to see how well you're throwing. They can take as much power as anyone can muster, but (especially beat DX ones) they don't take kindly to OAT. Beat DX ones also go about as far as distance drivers with more control if you have more height to work with.

You'll notice I left off "Understable driver." IMO, beat control drivers and stable distance drivers are the best options for this spot. If you need a stop-gap solution for a tournament or something there are options, but once you get good with that first bag you'll both be good at forcing discs over (and "under" to make them hold hyzers) and you'll have beat up control drivers (remember how I said to buy the cheap plastic?).


When you get to the point where you're happy with your line shaping (you should be pretty good at it after that first bag) and technique, throw whatever you want. Pros are at this level and some choose to throw more molds, but can still play really well with the "beginners" bag setup I outlined above. If you develop those skills rather than just familiarity with a bunch of different discs, small changes from different runs, discs going OOP and courses you aren't familiar with all become much less of an issue. You'll always have the right disc for whatever shot, because you aren't dependent on your discs to make any specific shot.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:01 AM
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smyith smyith is online now
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There is only one part of this that i would disagree with you. Putting is a very unique to each individual. there are many styles and stable putters are not always the best choice. they lack glide especially and their late hook can cause many misses.
i have taught many people how to play (I coach a local HS club). new players 90% of the time seem to pick up putting easiest with a straight glidier putter such as the Aviar P&A, Magnet, Omega, Pure, & etc. the reason i think this works out better for new players is because they havnt developed the ability to accurate place their putter with pushing power. and trying to force that power in early only develops bad putting habits and frustration. there are numerous top end pros who putt with slightly understable putters.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:09 AM
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Technohic Technohic is offline
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Nice post. I think I have been close to each of those phases in the past couple years; probably closer to the last part of just carrying whatever I want; except I have yet to do a good driver beyond fairway very much. I got an Avenger SS but its because its so flippy. I need to learn to throw drivers without such a hyzer angle. Been getting teebird 325-350' and the Avenger-SS for sure has hit 350'+ on a golf line but just havent had the luck with the faster ones.

Good news is, they dont stall out, they just come out on a hyzer, flatten for a little then fade more forward than what used to look like a boomerang.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:29 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
There is only one part of this that i would disagree with you. Putting is a very unique to each individual. there are many styles and stable putters are not always the best choice. they lack glide especially and their late hook can cause many misses.
i have taught many people how to play (I coach a local HS club). new players 90% of the time seem to pick up putting easiest with a straight glidier putter such as the Aviar P&A, Magnet, Omega, Pure, & etc. the reason i think this works out better for new players is because they havnt developed the ability to accurate place their putter with pushing power. and trying to force that power in early only develops bad putting habits and frustration.
I'd call this a minor point and you really can go either way. At 20' and in I think a vast majority of the people asking questions on here won't have a problem generating the power needed to perform a putt. I'm more concerned about learning approach shots and drives. The slightly more stable, beaded putters (the Omega has a small bead) are a bit better in the wind, even for putts, and most of them won't flip, even on huge throws. I'd just assume start off with the putters that perform the best rather than starting with what's the easiest and then trying to figure out if it's you or the disc if it's windy or you get a really good pull. My main point is to avoid some of the overstable (e.g. Rhyno) or understable lid-like putters (e.g. Putt'r) when you start off.

Quote:
there are numerous top end pros who putt with slightly understable putters.
I covered that in the last paragraph. They're in the "throw whatever you want because you're good enough that disc selection matters less" category.
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:15 PM
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U_NICED_ME U_NICED_ME is offline
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:34 PM
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hewittdallas hewittdallas is offline
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I really like this post and think it brings a lot of clarity to this topic.

With regards to the mids, do you not suggest people start out with something a little less stable? Even in the "Choosing the Right Golf Disc" article (which is a great read), Blake suggests starting out with something even less stable than a Buzzz or Roc. I didn't do this when I first started playing and really wish I did. I have found these molds to be among the best teaching discs and cleaned my form up so much. I believe he referred to them as "Neutral Mids" (e.g. Comet, Shark, Fuse, Element, etc...).
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:08 PM
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smyith smyith is online now
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a buzzz is not overstable in D or X by any means and are great for beginners.
the right dx roc is good for beginners but if they get one of those overstable beauties then its bad.
notice he says slightly overstable. you want a beginner to be able to work a mid in all conditions. midranges teach disc golf fundamentals quickly. garublador mentions all "neutral" mids imo. to sit there and list them would be unnecessary.

@Graublador
I see your point but i still disagree. if you're more concerned with them using the putter for upshots and drives doesn't that go against the "drive for show, putt for dough" mentality? i would think you want the focus on putting over upshots with the putter. a midrange is better for that early on anyway. straight putters also fly very consistent in wind if you have good putting form. Just like you i live in wind country. im a good putter and i use a pure up to about 15-20mph without loss of accuracy or change in putt. i learned with and P&A, and used that while i lived in Iowa.
p.s. the aviar p&a and magnet have a small bead as well. still straight and glidy just like the omega
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:20 PM
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burt5885 burt5885 is offline
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Is this the same for RHFH? Any other options for this Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)???
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:25 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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Great advice Garu, and it's something that's worked really well for me. I'm throwing a wizard, roc, gazelle, banshee/firebird, PD and wraith for all my shots. I've got a ton more consistency, distance and accuracy by learning to shape shots with those discs in different wear stages rather than the mess of molds I used to carry.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:53 PM
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Triflusal Triflusal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burt5885 View Post
Is this the same for RHFH? Any other options for this Driver* - 1 mold, slow, low end plastic, with some turn and some fade (e.g. DX Cheetah, M Polaris LS, DX Gazelle, D Cyclone, DX Eagle-X, etc.)???
yeah it should be the same. If you turn those discs over it is not because you throw forehand, it is because your form is bad.

It is a common myth that forehand turns discs over because it is "more powerful" than backhand.
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