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Old 09-20-2013, 04:53 PM
brianb brianb is offline
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Ratings discrepancy

A question for those who know something about the ratings system.

In a recent event, Pool A (All Open divisions and a few others) played course 1 in the AM and course 2 in the PM. Pool B (Adv and Int) played the opposite. As conditions were identical for both pools on each course the TD uploaded the scores as if they played the same course at the same time. In my understanding, the ratings for both pools playing the same course should be very similar, if not the same. As it turns out, they are very different. A 61 in Pool A round 1 is rated 902 while a 61 in Pool B round 2 is rated as 880. (Pool A played course 1 for round 1 - Pool B played course 1 round 2.) They played the same course layout in identical conditions and the scores were uploaded to show they played the same course at the same time. To further illustrate my point, the Am Women played course 1 both rounds 1 and 2. The third place woman shot a 70 both rounds - rated 814 round 1 and 786 round 2 - same course with the same conditions. Any ideas why the discrepancy? I realize the results are unofficial, will this be resolved when they go official? Here is the event: http://www.pdga.com/tournament_resul...790/1680884612

This conversation is only about rounds 1 and 2.

Disclaimer: It has a few small faults, but I believe that the ratings system is pretty darn accurate for players with several rounds. This is not an attempt to bash the ratings system.

Last edited by brianb; 09-20-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:05 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Ratings are based on the field of players per round, not the course. The ratings might get adjusted later to be a little closer.

Last edited by sidewinder22; 09-20-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:06 PM
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giles giles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianb View Post
A question for those who know something about the ratings system.

In a recent event, Pool A (All Open divisions and a few others) played course 1 in the AM and course 2 in the PM. Pool B (Adv and Int) played the opposite. As conditions were identical for both pools on each course the TD uploaded the scores as if they played the same course at the same time. In my understanding, the ratings for both pools playing the same course should be very similar, if not the same. As it turns out, they are very different. A 61 in Pool A round 1 is rated 902 while a 61 in Pool B round 2 is rated as 880. (Pool A played course 1 for round 1 - Pool B played course 1 round 2.) They played the same course layout in identical conditions and the scores were uploaded to show they played the same course at the same time. To further illustrate my point, the Am Women played course 1 both rounds 1 and 2. The third place woman shot a 70 both rounds - rated 814 round 1 and 786 round 2 - same course with the same conditions. Any ideas why the discrepancy? I realize the results are unofficial, will this be resolved when they go official? Here is the event: http://www.pdga.com/tournament_resul...790/1680884612

This conversation is only about rounds 1 and 2.

Disclaimer: It has a few small faults, but I believe that the ratings system is pretty darn accurate for players with several rounds. This is not an attempt to bash the ratings system.
Yes, they will probably be combined when they go official.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:08 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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It's likely an issue in how the pools and courses were assigned, if the TD actually put it in as though they played the same course at the same time it would already be averaged together. It's likely that will end up happening in the official ratings process.

Also, it's hard to say conclusively that conditions were exactly the same. The sun at a different angle, slightly different wind direction or speed, a little warmer weather etc. can all make small differences.
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:12 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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Yep, as long as the layout for each round/division is the same (in the tourney manager and TD report), in between the unofficial and official ratings the PDGA will examine just how close the SSA's of each round were, based on the number of propagators. If the rounds are deemed 'close enough', the propagators and scores from all the rounds will be combined for SSA and round rating purposes. i.e. the same score for each round will have the same rating.

A ~20 rating point difference (~2 throw) between rounds really isn't that unusual to observe, even with upwards of 100 propagators, especially if a lot of the propagators are amateurs with a small-ish number of total rated rounds anyway.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:37 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
It's likely an issue in how the pools and courses were assigned, if the TD actually put it in as though they played the same course at the same time it would already be averaged together. It's likely that will end up happening in the official ratings process.
Not true. Unofficial ratings calculations never combine rounds no matter how the pool/course assignments are entered. It is only in the official calculations that separate rounds played on the same layout/course can be combined for ratings purposes.
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:39 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Not true. Unofficial ratings calculations never combine rounds no matter how the pool/course assignments are entered. It is only in the official calculations that separate rounds played on the same layout/course can be combined for ratings purposes.
You're right, and I didn't state what I meant very clearly. I originally read the OP as saying the TD didn't enter it as different pools and just entered it as everybody playing the same courses at the same time in those two rounds. Clearly that's not the case here.
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