#751  
Old 03-26-2015, 11:28 AM
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donnyv donnyv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukeshoe View Post
More from an aesthetic standpoint than design, but you could attempt to identify unique/interesting trees (i.e., a monster oak or oddly-shaped pine) that could become visual (if not necessarily design) focal points. Even if one out of three "flat wooded holes" have some interesting tree, or flowering bush off the side of the fairway, it'll create visual interest and act as cues for people to remember the course. "Remember that gigantic gnarled tree in the middle of the fairway?"

From a design standpoint you can always create dual-fairway holes that offer a high risk/reward "cheater route" as well as a safer, longer, harder-to-birdie "bailout" route.

We've used these methods with some good success on a course in MI where we had to totally cut out fairways from thick forest. I'm sure John will be able offer some other methods, but those are two that are fairly simple to implement.
^^^Right on Juke!
I'm implementing some of this on my course. I have a bunch of those larger-type or unique trees in the woods that just stand out above the rest. My biggest challenge is finding ways where they can be incorporated into the design AND still survive regular play. Minimizing damage from potential disc hits and compaction of the soil around the tree and it's roots are my biggest concerns. It can be done!





Another thing you could do (if possible) is to have the course going in and out of the woods. Example, hole 1 plays into/through the woods, while hole 2 plays out of the woods to a basket in the open. Hole 3 tees off in the open and goes back through the woods to a basket near a slope, etc.






Holes 20-24 (Blue tees) at Mill Creek are 5 consecutive longer wooded holes that are tough. Large trees, rolling terrain and a small stream break it up and give each hole it's own character. There are still a few smaller and dead trees that need to be cut to make better "Fair"ways but it's more of a wait and see for which will stay and which will go.


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  #752  
Old 03-26-2015, 01:16 PM
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Jukeshoe Jukeshoe is offline
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Those first two pics are great examples! Thanks for taking the time to post 'em!
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  #753  
Old 04-04-2015, 07:11 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Doug, you've already gotten some good advice from Jukeshoe and Donny. I agree that anything having to do with terrain features, including interesting trees, can help differentiate your holes in the woods. Besides unique features, there are plenty of other aspects you can vary to keep your holes different.
  • Vary the slope: uphill, downhill, sidehill, up then down, down then up, etc.
  • Vary the par. Out of 10 holes, I'll typically do something like 4 par threes, 5 par fours, and a par five (in a pear tree).
  • Vary the width (within a hole and from hole to hole)
  • Vary the length
  • Vary the size and shape and slope of the greens
  • Vary the size and shape and slope of the landing areas and the distance to and from the landing areas
  • Vary the direction of the dogleg on par fours and fives
  • Some holes have options; some don't
  • Of course, the main thing is to start by varying the shape of the shots: right-to-left, left-to-right, straight, big sweeping RTL or LTR, hyzer flip/S...

When you're in the woods and working on your own land, you have almost complete control to create the type of fairway you want. It just takes a lot more work.

And don't let the flatness get to you; sometimes that's just the hand you're dealt, and I've encountered it before. Most of the front 9 of the WR Jackson course is pretty darn flat, and the course in Nantucket is just about the flattest course in the world, let alone the flattest woods course. Having flat terrain just means that you, as the designer, have to work harder to make the holes interesting (without being gimmicky).

And you may very well have the option to make a trade: two shorter holes in the hilly section for one longer hole in the flat section. Living in NC, there are plenty of courses you can look to for inspiration. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Thanks,
John
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  #754  
Old 04-06-2015, 10:36 AM
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goosefraba1 goosefraba1 is offline
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Hey John and crew... I just wanted to show you guys the final design for Shawnee State Park (Blackbear DGC is the working name). It has been a long road, but I have had some very good guidance from Drew Zeigler and Adam Jones. This pic got compressed by facebook, but it is a decent representation. Some fairways (like the howdy-do point of 3/4/10/11 are actually farther apart from each other). Looking at a par 62 from long pad to long pin (blue level), we haven't gotten the shorts pads dialed in completely (red level). I will work on that more this week, and might have to adjust the pins just a bit accordingly. The Red lines on this map represent the long pad shot to long pin. The Green lines represent short pad to long pin. The blue dots represent some of the short pins thus far. I am sure that more of these are actually marked on the course.

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  #755  
Old 04-07-2015, 12:02 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Thanks for the update, Goose.

As always, I hesitate to comment based just on a topo, but I can say this: I know you've put a lot of head and heart into it, and I hope it exceeds your expectations for it.
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  #756  
Old 04-07-2015, 01:00 PM
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DougCrawford DougCrawford is offline
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I foresee lots of time spent in the woods in the near future
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  #757  
Old 04-07-2015, 03:32 PM
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Jukeshoe Jukeshoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
  • Vary the slope: uphill, downhill, sidehill, up then down, down then up, etc.
  • Vary the par. Out of 10 holes, I'll typically do something like 4 par threes, 5 par fours, and a par five (in a pear tree).
  • Vary the width (within a hole and from hole to hole)
  • Vary the length
  • Vary the size and shape and slope of the greens
  • Vary the size and shape and slope of the landing areas and the distance to and from the landing areas
  • Vary the direction of the dogleg on par fours and fives
  • Some holes have options; some don't
  • Of course, the main thing is to start by varying the shape of the shots: right-to-left, left-to-right, straight, big sweeping RTL or LTR, hyzer flip/S...
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