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Old 02-18-2014, 09:05 AM
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joecoin joecoin is offline
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Need guidance on technique

I'm a dye n00b. I want to put this image on a disc. I've read the tutorials and have a grasp of the process, but I need to know how to get fine lines to come out looking good.

All help appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2014, 10:02 AM
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The same way you get to Carnagie Hall........and a sharp x-acto.

But seriously,practice and patience. I wouldn't jump into something like that 'til you have a few other dyes under your belt. This will build your technique in all aspects... cutting, applying the stencil, avoiding bleeds...it'd be heartbreaking to spend the hours required to cut that out and then overheat the dye bath or realize it gets a little tricky smoothing a stencile out near the rim if you have large weeded areas.

If you don't have extra discs in premium plastic try a few simple dyes on dx or other base line plastic, they won't take color very well and will fade and get fuzzy quickly but it will push you along the learning curve and get you some skills and practice without spending a fortune.

Welcome to the addiction and good luck.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:21 PM
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roggenb3 roggenb3 is offline
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Word. What he said. You're bound to hit some snags in your first couple, so take it easy. Not that you need to dye for a month before trying this one, but at least do 1 or 2 simple ones that don't take forever to cut out just to get a feel for cutting with an exacto blade (unless you have experience with that already) and how prepare the dye, etc.

The threads here can teach you pretty much everything, but you never really know until you do it yourself.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
The same way you get to Carnagie Hall........and a sharp x-acto.

But seriously,practice and patience. I wouldn't jump into something like that 'til you have a few other dyes under your belt. This will build your technique in all aspects... cutting, applying the stencil, avoiding bleeds...it'd be heartbreaking to spend the hours required to cut that out and then overheat the dye bath or realize it gets a little tricky smoothing a stencile out near the rim if you have large weeded areas.

If you don't have extra discs in premium plastic try a few simple dyes on dx or other base line plastic, they won't take color very well and will fade and get fuzzy quickly but it will push you along the learning curve and get you some skills and practice without spending a fortune.

Welcome to the addiction and good luck.
Last time I went to Carnegie Hall I took the bus. How's that gonna help? Oh, you mean practice. Yeah, I'll do a couple simple line drawings on some Star discs. Maybe cut some fine lines that can be dyed over if they look bad. Can you dye over your mistakes?
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:04 PM
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Ok so you know you need to practice....

Anyway, for fine lines you can actually just make a single line cut into the vinyl. I usually do this for facial features and detail work.

To get the shadowing, I will use diluted black dye mixed with a thickener (shaving cream, etc) and apply it for a short period of time, wash, inspect, reapply, until you get the results you want.

My steps for this pic.

Cut out stencil
Dip in Black dye
Rinse
Remove all non white parts of the stencil
Start the shading, moving from the darkest to the lightest.
Rinse, Remove, Revolve (this means throw it)

Another tip on the shading is to use the original pic for referance but do not be afraid to take some artistic liberty. Do not cut out the areas to be shaded as it will look manufactured. Much like painting a panel on a car and not feathering it in to the surrounding areas, it won't look right.

Last edited by DikkaD; 02-18-2014 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DikkaD View Post
Ok so you know you need to practice....

Anyway, for fine lines you can actually just make a single line cut into the vinyl. I usually do this for facial features and detail work.

To get the shadowing, I will use diluted black dye mixed with a thickener (shaving cream, etc) and apply it for a short period of time, wash, inspect, reapply, until you get the results you want.

My steps for this pic.

Cut out stencil
Dip in Black dye
Rinse
Remove all non white parts of the stencil
Start the shading, moving from the darkest to the lightest.
Rinse, Remove, Revolve (this means throw it)

Another tip on the shading is to use the original pic for referance but do not be afraid to take some artistic liberty. Do not cut out the areas to be shaded as it will look manufactured. Much like painting a panel on a car and not feathering it in to the surrounding areas, it won't look right.
Thanks for this. There's not a whole lot on how to do good shading effects on here. That's the next step I need to take, as yet I've never done anything with shading but have been wanting try one.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:56 AM
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joecoin joecoin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DikkaD View Post
Ok so you know you need to practice....

Anyway, for fine lines you can actually just make a single line cut into the vinyl. I usually do this for facial features and detail work.

To get the shadowing, I will use diluted black dye mixed with a thickener (shaving cream, etc) and apply it for a short period of time, wash, inspect, reapply, until you get the results you want.

My steps for this pic.

Cut out stencil
Dip in Black dye
Rinse
Remove all non white parts of the stencil
Start the shading, moving from the darkest to the lightest.
Rinse, Remove, Revolve (this means throw it)

Another tip on the shading is to use the original pic for referance but do not be afraid to take some artistic liberty. Do not cut out the areas to be shaded as it will look manufactured. Much like painting a panel on a car and not feathering it in to the surrounding areas, it won't look right.
Bear with me, I'm a little thick.

What's the difference between "Cut out stencil" and "Remove all non white parts of the stencil"? Additionally, how do you get dye on the plastic if you "Do not cut out the areas to be shaded as it will look manufactured."

Also, when you say "diluted black dye mixed with a thickener (shaving cream, etc) " do you mean the shaving cream is not only the thickener but the dilutor as well? If not, what to dilute with and at what ratio?

Sorry for my ignorance.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:05 PM
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El Duderino El Duderino is offline
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^^^^I think the wording just made it sound complicated.

This is a "one color dye".......about 20 cycles of rinse and peel


Same strength black dye, reheated periodically to keep warm.

-Applied entire stencil pre-handcut(all except the inside of the sun)and smooth out ALL air bubbles along or near cuts
-Weed all BLACK areas
-15-20 min dip. check after about 2 min to make sure there's no air bubbles in the disc
....it doesn't have to be absolute black yet because all of the subsequent dips will keep adding more color, also keep this in mind as you proceed so can still have enough contrast where you need it at the end.
-rinse and peel the next darkest area and dip for a few min. (I think about 5-8min)
-rinse and peel the next darkest area and dip for a few min. the lightest color in the bodies
-rinse and peel, I think it was the sky next. couple more min.
-next was the sun, 13 or so seperate dips ranging from about 30-90sec. for those I free hand the concentric rings before each dip....by the time I peel the center of the sun the only part of the disc that still had vinyl was the eyes and teeth.

I took the pic within a few hours of finishing. When the disc was auctioned at our IceBowl 3 months later the lines had softened nicely into a smooth gradation.

FWIW....star dart, old RIT
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:05 AM
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joecoin joecoin is offline
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^^ Completely understand now. Thank you very much.
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2014, 10:47 AM
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DikkaD DikkaD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
^^^^I think the wording just made it sound complicated.

This is a "one color dye".......about 20 cycles of rinse and peel


Same strength black dye, reheated periodically to keep warm.

-Applied entire stencil pre-handcut(all except the inside of the sun)and smooth out ALL air bubbles along or near cuts
-Weed all BLACK areas
-15-20 min dip. check after about 2 min to make sure there's no air bubbles in the disc
....it doesn't have to be absolute black yet because all of the subsequent dips will keep adding more color, also keep this in mind as you proceed so can still have enough contrast where you need it at the end.
-rinse and peel the next darkest area and dip for a few min. (I think about 5-8min)
-rinse and peel the next darkest area and dip for a few min. the lightest color in the bodies
-rinse and peel, I think it was the sky next. couple more min.
-next was the sun, 13 or so seperate dips ranging from about 30-90sec. for those I free hand the concentric rings before each dip....by the time I peel the center of the sun the only part of the disc that still had vinyl was the eyes and teeth.

I took the pic within a few hours of finishing. When the disc was auctioned at our IceBowl 3 months later the lines had softened nicely into a smooth gradation.

FWIW....star dart, old RIT
Thanks for clarifying my post I forgot about this thread.

Go for it Joe!
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