#771  
Old 07-24-2015, 02:47 AM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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John - have you designed any 6 baskets that are say - 6 par 5 teepads, 6 par 4s, 6 par 3s? Or 27 hole 9/9/9 splits like that? Or any? I'm thinking about building something like that in the future - and I'm wondering if you found any particular little challenges in it?
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  #772  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:59 AM
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goosefraba1 goosefraba1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Hi, Goose. This is a great question and an important one.

I have made very few par fours that are eagle-able by the skill level they're designed for. I know not all designers will agree with me here, but I consider a true par four to be one that requires two good shots to get a putt. For the kind of hole you have in mind, if Blue players can get to 50-80', chances are they can get to 100-150', which -- unless there are a lot of trees with tight but fair gaps or some other salient features -- means your looking at NAGS (Not A Golf Shot).

When I do a deliberately eagle-able par four, it requires a great shot to get to the green, and any other available lines require two legitimate shots. Hole #2 at Selah Lakeside is a great example, because of the strategy options it offers. Hole #3 at Texas Twist is probably an easier-to-understand example. I'm including a copy of the tee sign.

Clearing the water requires a 400' drive, and the fact that the basket is on a little bit of an isthmus means that a drive that's 400' long but right or left will be wet. And anyone who can throw extra long to be safe will be looking at a long putt with water behind, so you really have to earn your eagle.

If you take the two-shot route through the woods, even a really good drive leaves you with a 200' approach up and over the dam and a substantial water carry. So a birdie is a really good score.

That's my basic philosophy of par fours. I have done holes designed as two legitimate shots where an amazing drive can get you a long eagle putt. One example is #15 at WR Jackson, which Dave Feldberg nailed a few times at early tournaments there. I think other superstars have hit it since then.

On the other hand, I work very hard to make sure that my par fives are eagle-able. Doing that while avoiding NAGS zones is tricky business, but I feel like I've been pretty successful, and I continue to refine my techniques. I did one last week, in fact, that is probably the most elegant I've ever done. And both Strawn and Frost Valley will have multiple par fives that I really like.

Hope that answers your question.

Hey John,

Thanks for the reply, that is quite the hole that you give as an example! Once I get some maps and hole layouts with distances, I will post it again. I am almost certain that it isn't in a NAGS zone. I think that the eagle will be a very seldom one, and to reach it requires a high speed turnover/hyzerflip where if the disc fades too soon you end up down a hill side on the left (RHBH) and in some real trouble. You have to have very strong control of your game for the shot.

Thanks again John!
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  #773  
Old 07-24-2015, 11:48 AM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Goose, that does sound interesting. Looking forward to seeing your hole map and photos if you have them.
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  #774  
Old 07-24-2015, 11:57 AM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
John - have you designed any 6 baskets that are say - 6 par 5 teepads, 6 par 4s, 6 par 3s? Or 27 hole 9/9/9 splits like that? Or any? I'm thinking about building something like that in the future - and I'm wondering if you found any particular little challenges in it?
Chris, if I understand your question, you're asking about a course that has equal numbers of each par -- is that right? For 18 holes, that would be par 72, which is higher than i like to go. At this point, I prefer a few more par threes -- that's really the historical foundation of disc golf, and I think it makes sense that we have a few more par threes than most ball golf courses have.

If I have enough land, and if the job calls for a championship course, I'll typically wind up with maybe 4 par fives, 6 par fours, and 8 par threes, or something in that neighborhood.

Now that I think about it, Strawn Road Park in Columbia, MO has that exact mix. Hoping to have that one open in the next couple months. Thanks for your question -- let me know if I answered it for you.
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