#331  
Old 01-08-2014, 04:23 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanJon View Post
The professional disc golfers, and future pros, want a bigger better image so they can make more money.
And yet, some of those very same people contribute to the very sordidness that is supposedly holding them back.
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  #332  
Old 01-08-2014, 09:11 AM
KaBooM KaBooM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
Lol...you're an angry guy, aren't you.

So what is my problem with what is happening? If somebody actually has a plan that is going to result in the spectators and revenue needed to make professional disc golf viable, I'm not going to be in the way. I've just never heard anyone tell me anything that sounds like it is going to work and when I ask WTH this "thing" is I get told that "I can't tell you any details becasue a lot of things are still in the works, but trust me something big is happening." I've been told that for about 20 years, so excuse me if I'm skeptical that there is a deliberate, thoughtful business planning for the future. It sound like the same wishful thinking smoke that has been blown up my skirt for forever.

I'm not afraid of the future. I've advocated blowing up what we do and starting over for years. I've been saying for decades that shutting out the parks and recreation profession from disc golf programming is a mistake and that we as players need to loosen the grip of "disc golf by disc golfers for disc golfers" mentality that has segregated us and kept the power in the hands of the "powers that be" that you seem to think I'm afraid might lose it. That we disagree about what the future will bring is just that; a disagreement. If you have no respect for me and my opinions, whatever. Just don't put words in my mouth.
You make many good points in some of your posts. However, some of what you say is debateable to me.

You imply that the exisitng "inner circle" of disc golfers, at the local level, keep their grips and control on courses at the exclusion of local Parks and Rec and thus in the long run, the greater good of the sport/game is compromised. I don't see it this way and I believe that you are painting things with too simplified a brush. In my experience, the ideal model for a disc golf course is a partnership between the local "inner circle" (i.e., experienced "experts") and the Parks 'n Rec folks. Designing, maintaining, cultivating and upgrading a disc golf course is not at all in the wheelhouse of ~ 98% of the Parks 'n Rec departments. The PnR sweetspot is to erect tennis courts, basketball courts, softball and soccer fields. Construction, design is rather "cookie cutter" and they can easily share best practices with neighboring towns to do this task well. Some tennis courts may lend themselves to a "reservation system" (a kin to a tee time) and PnR folks can handle that well. Most of the activity on these fields/court is casual play. However, there are some members of the community that pursue competition at a higher level and these pursuits (Mens Basketball leagues, competitive youth soccer tournaments, regional tennis tournaments, etc, elite fast pitch softball) tend to gravitate to a cooperative alliance between PnR and local "inner circle" hard core enthusiasts (folks that organize, coach, play in competitive leagues and tournaments that will utilize PnR soccer, lacrosse field, basketball/tennis courts).

Ceding control to the PnR of course desing/installation in most cases (other than on those rare occassions in which a local area is fortunate to have a disc golf enthusiast who happens to also be a PnR official) would result in SIGNIFICANT decrease in the quality of the product (the course) and thus the experinece of the user. Ideally, the local disc golf club and the PnR department can form a partnership in which, over time, more "ownership" is transferred from the disc golf "inner circle" to the PnR. The annual tournaments that seek out the best competition should still, in most cases, be managed by the inner circle experts, with perhaps the PnR folks taking a role in other lower profile competitive events (assuming that they have the staff to devote to disc golf which most areas do not have, hence players and volunteers have to still do all this as a practical matter).

I believe that in CT we have a pretty good track record of creating these partnership/alliances between the local disc golf "inner circle" and the parks folks. I have seen many a course come to fruition based upon the impetus, sweat, funding (although there has been shared funding out of the gate in some instances) of the local "inner circle" enthusiasists. Then play at such courses takes off. PnR is impressed with the usage of the facility and starts taking a greater interest in care, upgrades, allowing tournaments, etc. However, none of these success stories would have occured had "control" ceding to the parks folks at too early a juncture.

Also, an area should offer a blend of courses/holes that are beginner friendly up to elite level. Ideally, through multiple tees/baskets at the same facility. However, that is not feasible everywhere. There is a quick learning curve in this game, at least from the standpoint of am players being able to huck the discs far enough to have fun playing from the "big boy" tees. While certainly there is some level of "intimidation" that some folks have spoken to, the other side of that coin is "inspiration" that takes place when newbies cross paths with people who can do amazing things with these discs and also happen to pass along a few pointers and convey that they've only themselves been playing for ~ 2 years.

I agree totally that more emphasis should be placed on instilling DG in the schools as an accepted form of recreation. However, this also requires a lot of volunteer energy, probably from the same "inner circle" that may already be spread thin. I agree that the game would be best served when tournaments are run with a conscious eye to "clean up" the hippy image (and I like hippies). However, I see nothing inherently wrong with maintaining the PDGA tour and striving to allow the elite players a forum for competing for titles and money (yes entry fees and sponsor $). More $ will ultimately flow into the game with higher participation levels. It will take time and I harbor no delusions that DG will ever become an elite professional sport, but it can still grow and improve at the professional levels.
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  #333  
Old 01-08-2014, 10:44 AM
ScottyLove ScottyLove is online now
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My favorite weekly TV show is the CBS Sunday Morning show. They produce little 5-7 minute stories about just any topic you can think of. I've invited them to come out to Scottsdale, AZ in late February to do a piece on disc golf at The Memorial...

Crossing my fingers and doing my part to help!
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  #334  
Old 01-08-2014, 11:25 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaBooM View Post
You make many good points in some of your posts. However, some of what you say is debateable to me.
Everything is debatable.

Parks and recreation, like anything, is hit and miss. Some places would do it better than others. Usually places with strong softball programming have people running that programming that love softball. Disc golf really hasn't done anything to encourage young disc golfers to get college degrees in parks and recreation so that people who love disc golf are inside those departments making decisions. Those people would develop the blueprint of how it is done for others to follow. Right now there is no blueprint.
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  #335  
Old 01-08-2014, 11:27 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Actually, the focus for most people I've talked to is toward private courses. If your focus is more private courses, you wouldn't bother to work with parks and recreation.
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