#721  
Old 11-08-2014, 03:39 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Thanks for sharing that. Knowing that even the best designer prefers not to finalize the design before some clearing, I can now be more assertive in asking clients to do at least initial clearing.
Thanks, Steve. Clearing in stages is really important, and it's been almost a decade since I've done a wooded course in one trip. I typically plan on three trips for any course that's substantially wooded. On the first trip, I do the basic routing and mark mostly narrow alleys on each hole for clearing. Once they've done that work, the second trip is about widening where needed, refining landing areas, adding options off the tee and to the basket, etc. Once they've cleared again, the third trip is to polish everything and get the fairways just right, trim limbs and do other detail work, and mark the tee and basket locations at the end.

Initial clearing allows you to see where you're going, and turns educated guesses into confident decisions. And when you break the process into phases, there are two main advantages for the client. The first is that reducing guesswork means that you virtually eliminate those times when you take out a tree and later wish you hadn't. The second is that you wind up with a superior product, and that's better for everyone.

As you can imagine, on courses around the country, this process increases travel costs (three trips vs. one), but it cuts down on design time, which means reduced costs for lodging and rent car, if I have one. So it's probably a wash as far as expenses.

These days, if I wanted to create a 600' dogleg par four with multiple routes, and do it in just one trip, I could do it. But I can do it better and faster in steps.

By the way, I'm really intrigued by the deuce percentage data you sent recently to the DGCD (not sure if you've posted it on DGCR anywhere), and I'm looking forward to digging deeper when I have more time.
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  #722  
Old 11-08-2014, 03:57 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by Flip Hyzerman View Post
John - how excited are you to be designing the new course in Columbia, MO (Strawn Road Park)? What is your strategy for building a course out of a new piece of land? Do you 'see' lines as you build the holes?
Flip, I am extremely excited about that course. That property has a lot more to offer than meets the eye. And Columbia has a great DG history, a great DG club, and a great parks department with 100% City support.

As for the process, the first step is always to learn every bit of the land, which may take several days. During that time, while you're mentally cataloging the key features and understanding the spacial relationships, you'll always be seeing lines, potential tee and basket locations, potential landing areas, etc. etc.

In the case of Strawn, I had an 18-hole routing that I liked a lot after about 50 hours, which is pretty quick for me. But there were a couple hole concepts that I thought could be better, so I went back to work on those. Making a change on one hole can have a domino effect, and that's what happened at Strawn. So it was probably another 30 hours before I felt like I had everything the way I want it. Those hours dedicated to refining everything was frustrating at times, but when it was over I felt that it was time well spent.

The City is working on the initial clearing now, and I'm really looking forward to my next trip. We do now have more information about the Strawn course (with photos) on our website and on our Facebook page:

http://houckdesign.com/current_disc_golf_courses.php
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4623917&type=3
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  #723  
Old 11-08-2014, 05:59 PM
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MrDarkHorse MrDarkHorse is offline
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Hey I heard once that Brushy Creek Sports Park was originally designed as an 18 hole course, but that it ended up being a 9 hole course.

Are there plans to eventually make it 18? Was that a funding thing?

Just curious because it's the closest course to my house, and I'd love to see it expanded. Also pretty interested to what the other holes are "supposed" to be.
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  #724  
Old 11-14-2014, 09:47 AM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDarkHorse View Post
Hey I heard once that Brushy Creek Sports Park was originally designed as an 18 hole course, but that it ended up being a 9 hole course.

Are there plans to eventually make it 18? Was that a funding thing?

Just curious because it's the closest course to my house, and I'd love to see it expanded. Also pretty interested to what the other holes are "supposed" to be.
Nathan, as far as I can remember, we always hoped it could someday get to 18, but I don't recall there ever being a City plan for that. And I don't believe we ever designed any more holes, other than just looking for fun and to make sure it was possible. It does seem like there were not funds for 18 at the time. Might still be possible, I suppose. Thanks.
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  #725  
Old 11-16-2014, 09:34 PM
jbrad jbrad is offline
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Hi John,
We're reviewing our course for balance between left and right handed players. Do you have a clear definition for what comprises a "lefty hole" or a "righty hole"?
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  #726  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:39 AM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrad View Post
Hi John,
We're reviewing our course for balance between left and right handed players. Do you have a clear definition for what comprises a "lefty hole" or a "righty hole"?
Another good question, jbrad.

First, if you have a bunch of par four's and or par five's, you really need to look at lefty vs. righty shots, not holes.

Second -- and this is where some courses fail -- you have to look at the type of righty or lefty shots. I've seen courses where most of the "lefty" shots are easy lefty hyzers that work great for easy, sweeping righty anhyzers. But the "righty" shots have angles that are easy for a righty but force a lefty to throw something crazy that flips hard at the end. The classic is a hole where a righty can throw something flat that fades at the end, and a lefty has to try a roller.

Third, be aware of "lefty" holes that actually favor a righty "S": the fairway bends left-to-right, but a righty "S" can actually go farther than a left hyzer.

Don't forget to look at where OB is -- that has to be balanced as much as possible. And then there are considerations like sloping greens, etc. etc.

It can get tricky, especially in this era of overstable discs. The bottom line is that the course, as a whole, should give everyone the same opportunity to score well and the same total risk.
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  #727  
Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Hyzerman View Post
John - how excited are you to be designing the new course in Columbia, MO (Strawn Road Park)? What is your strategy for building a course out of a new piece of land? Do you 'see' lines as you build the holes?
Flip, as I suspect you may know, I recently came home from another 2 1/2 week trip to Columbia. We made major progress at Strawn, and the parks department will soon be working on the second phase. I am more excited than ever about this course. All the holes are really coming together, and we'll be posting photos soon on the HouckDesign Facebook page. I feel like everyone in the Columbia area will have a real jewel to enjoy come this summer.

I also want to wish everyone who celebrates Christmas a wonderful day, and to all a happy holiday season, and may 2015 be your best year yet.
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  #728  
Old Yesterday, 12:15 PM
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Pwingles Pwingles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Flip, as I suspect you may know, I recently came home from another 2 1/2 week trip to Columbia. We made major progress at Strawn, and the parks department will soon be working on the second phase. I am more excited than ever about this course. All the holes are really coming together, and we'll be posting photos soon on the HouckDesign Facebook page. I feel like everyone in the Columbia area will have a real jewel to enjoy come this summer.

I also want to wish everyone who celebrates Christmas a wonderful day, and to all a happy holiday season, and may 2015 be your best year yet.
John, will this be finished in time for the Mid Am? I Believe its usually between KCWO and SLO.
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  #729  
Old Yesterday, 04:13 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Pwingles, we are still on track to be ready before the Mid-America Open.

In many ways, this is the most ambitious course I've done, and there's a lot of work that needs to happen. The Parks Department is committed, and so am I, so we'll all be hoping to be ready by summer. Thanks.
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