#21  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
Regarding intent - I could make the same argument if I put my bag or chair on a blind hill...."Hey man, it's against the rules to use a directional aid"...."It's not a directional aid, I just left my bag up there when I went up to look at the basket to save some energy". If the bag is in between you and a blind basket in a way that could aid in hitting a line - then you broke the rule, even if you claim that was not your intention.
Couldn't you also call an interference violation on somebody that leaves a bag in front of their throw?

804.03 Interference

F) Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur. A player may require other players to move themselves or their equipment if either could interfere with the throw. Refusal to do so is a courtesy violation.
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  #22  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:40 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
Changing the rules and removing "Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed." would be the best. It is a line in the rules that is not really needed.
I'd bet the removal of that rule would slow down play as players would spend time running down the fairway (or asking someone to run down the fairway) to place something to throw at.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:08 PM
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801.03 B "A device that is questioned by another player or an official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director."

Given the way he it was placed, it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone on the card to question it and thus make it illegal until the TD makes a ruling.

But the rule is worded poorly, not sufficient defined and honestly I'm struggling to understand why it's needed.The lawyers will argue how do you make the "device" (a mini) illegal? It's supposed to be used to mark the lie. Much like placing a bag on the blind hill shouldn't make the bag illegal?

Anybody really know why this rule exists? Was it to stop things like this or to prevent someone from coming up with a brace or holding device that ensured consistent release.
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:59 PM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
I'd bet the removal of that rule would slow down play as players would spend time running down the fairway (or asking someone to run down the fairway) to place something to throw at.
It wasn't that much of a problem when the rule was added. IIRC it's origin actually started in an interference discussion not in a delay of play discussion. And even then it was mostly theoretical. The 30 second rule and interference rules are sufficient that it will not unduly delay play to remove this portion of the rule.

How often do you even hear someone mutter, "I wish I could go put my bag up in the middle of the fairway to know where I need to throw"
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:22 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It wasn't that much of a problem when the rule was added. IIRC it's origin actually started in an interference discussion not in a delay of play discussion. And even then it was mostly theoretical. The 30 second rule and interference rules are sufficient that it will not unduly delay play to remove this portion of the rule.

How often do you even hear someone mutter, "I wish I could go put my bag up in the middle of the fairway to know where I need to throw"
Yeah, watch any video of Philo to see how often that 30 second rule is enforced.

I like overkill when it comes to speeding up play. When players are bringing along footballs and crossword puzzles to kill time during a round, we need to do everything, not just one thing. So, I'd like to make all the unnecessary actions that slow down play illegal, on top of the 30 second rule.

But this might lead to thread drift, so nevermind.
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2017, 09:29 PM
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The directional aid rule is a redundancy, almost an embedded Q&A, reminding players they generally can't deliberately mess with the course during the round, especially in front of their lies. But on their lies, like a mini on the tee pad, it really doesn't matter if the player gets some directional benefit if what is placed there meets the requirements of a pad like a towel. The key is that all players have the option to get the same potential directional benefit on the tee with their own minis.

However, once players have left the tee pad and are each throwing from a random location, doing any type of temporary directional marking in front of the lie not only messes with the course but is potentially useful only for this player, potentially providing a differential advantage. And again more importantly, it would be messing with the course during play.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2017, 10:38 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
He tells you to leave the mini where it is because it is for feng shui. Developing positive chi is vital to his game and he can't have his feng shui out of whack. Besides, you can't accuse him of using a directional aid unless you define it but there's no definition.
Feug shui?? He's gonna need some after I pick up his mini. How's he gonna stop me? The only legit argument would be the same one I'm using for picking it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
This seems very clear cut to me what is going on. So it boils down to if the player wants to admit it or not. smh...
Bingo!
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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The end of the teepad seemed hard to define. Maybe he used it to prevent a potential foot fault or keep from stepping on a root or something.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2017, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The directional aid rule is a redundancy, almost an embedded Q&A, reminding players they generally can't deliberately mess with the course during the round, especially in front of their lies. But on their lies, like a mini on the tee pad, it really doesn't matter if the player gets some directional benefit if what is placed there meets the requirements of a pad like a towel. The key is that all players have the option to get the same potential directional benefit on the tee with their own minis.

However, once players have left the tee pad and are each throwing from a random location, doing any type of temporary directional marking in front of the lie not only messes with the course but is potentially useful only for this player, potentially providing a differential advantage. And again more importantly, it would be messing with the course during play.
I never liked this rule. To me a directional aid only allows players to be held accountable for their foot placement. If the basket location is truly in doubt, how is anyone able to call a foot fault with no direction aid being used?
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