#81  
Old 07-31-2013, 09:50 PM
rickgz rickgz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Add "willingness to consult the rule book" as one of the important disc golf skills to develop.
Agreed!

Rick G
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  #82  
Old 08-01-2013, 12:01 PM
Dana Dana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
Here's the thing, you may not feel like you got an advantage by having your foot 1/4" too far forward, but you gain an advantage when you don't have to put in the effort and attention to make sure you don't make that kind of little mistake. It sounds like the guy tried to give you a warning (and probably should have given you a warning the first time it happened on the second day), but it is a rule and there is an advantage in not following it.
This.
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  #83  
Old 08-01-2013, 12:14 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Some rules are more serious offenses than others which is why the punishements greatly differ (i.e. a foot fault is a warning. Playing while suspended is a 10 year suspension). However, both actions are still against the rules. The action of breaking the rules is the same.
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  #84  
Old 08-01-2013, 01:52 PM
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juju juju is offline
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Question: If you knew the rules, why didn't you tell your card-mate to enforce them correctly?

I can understand your sentiment that it is pretty minor but as has been said, this ain't Nam.
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  #85  
Old 08-01-2013, 02:23 PM
rickgz rickgz is offline
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OP here...

Lessons to be learned and remembered for future Tournaments:

For Me, Know the rules and follow them. No infraction is trivial. Carry a rule book and if questioned, calmly pull out the book, check the rules for the questioned infraction as well as for the penalties. Do not get upset and remain calm. If all else fails, call for a provisional and consult the TD for the final say.

For the person who wants to call any infraction on another player. KNOW THE RULE FOR THE INFRACTION YOU ARE CALLING AS WELL AS THE PENALTY AND HOW IT NEEDS TO BE PLAYED OUT. Just knowing the infraction is not enough if you don't know how to enforce it properly by the rule book.

I think I got it.

Rick G
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  #86  
Old 08-01-2013, 02:29 PM
agibson agibson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgz View Post
For Me, Know the rules and follow them. No infraction is trivial. Carry a rule book and if questioned, calmly pull out the book, check the rules for the questioned infraction as well as for the penalties. Do not get upset and remain calm. If all else fails, call for a provisional and consult the TD for the final say.
In the spirit of personal wisdom, for me it's been more like
"Try not to get too personally or emotionally invested in rules discussions. Try to find some happy medium (playing in Rec and Novice) between following and enforcing the rules, educating myself and others, and adapting to the local tournament culture. Be ready to use provisionals liberally to help keep things moving, defuse any mounting tension, and still stay within the rules."

In my limited experience, throwing a provisional's often seemed easier than trying to pull out a rule book, find the right place, interpret it correctly, etc, etc. Maybe if I knew the book better it'd be different. But, if there's some doubt I find that many other players aren't in much of a mood to have a calm, rationale, discussion (slowing down play at least a little, maybe more than a little, etc.). It often just seems easier, and not _too_ controversial, to just recommend a provisional, and ask the TD later.
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  #87  
Old 08-01-2013, 03:04 PM
alex513ninja alex513ninja is offline
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Originally Posted by rickgz View Post
Hello All,

I hope I am askeing this in the right section, if not perhaps the Mods can move it.

I had an unpleasent situation happen to me at a 2 day tournament this weekend concerning being called on a very minor infraction (twice) that cost me a couple of strokes. I am asking for your collective wisdom as to your take on the situation.

First off, I have read the rule book and do try hard to play within the rules whether it be solo play by myself or with friends, scrambles or sanctioned tournaments.

What I was called on, was for touching my marker disc when making upshots 100 feet or more from the basket, in other words not Putts. The touching was very incidental which probably happened as I looked at different angles before throwing and not looking down and double checking my foot before throwing. My foot was maybe touching the outer rim of the marker, and possibly on it by maybe an 1/4 " or causing the marker to move by the same amount after throwing. Like I said, very incidental with no intent for a tactical advantage, nor would there be a tactitcal advantage. It is not as if I kicked the marker away or completey stepped on it.

The person who called me on it did give me a warning yesterday which kind of stunned everyone else in the group, and then called me on it twice today without warning, even after I was obviously trying to comply with his warning. The other person on the card who confirmed it for the penalty, took me aside and told me it was BS but it is the rule, and he saw me touch the mini so he confirmed and I was stroked. The 2nd time I believe I did not touch, but that a twig underneath my marker and foot had caused the motion.

Now I have been stroked before, for OB's, throwing from the wrong tee, and for miss counting my card before turning it in, and have no issues with that as they are major infractions, but I thought what happened to me at this tourny was very petty and everyone I discussed it with including the TD whom I know fairly well agreed.

At the end of the round after calming down, I told the person that I felt he was being petty as it was incidental, no intent, and that this was not a pro tourny or even a B event but a local C event that is put on for fun.

I will mention that the fellow who called me, I was leading by one stroke going into todays final round and we were #1 & #2. Fortunately, even with the strokes I led him by 3 more strokes at the tournament's end, but it did allow #3 to catch up and tie me. I did prevail in the throw off and he too thought it was quite petty and that he would never have done so.

So my question is, in tournament play (amature not Pro) do you call other players out on very minor incidental infractions that would have no bearing on the play?

FWIW, this was Advanced Grandmasters, so I wasn't dealing with some young hotshot.

Thanks for your insight.

Rick G

It has always been my understanding that in order to receive a stroke penalty More than one player in the group has to agree on the penalty at hand. Also from reading a lot of forums and watching a lot of videos I have also come to understand that it tends to be AM players who are rule nazis and pros rarely if ever call those minor infractions. Also I would never call others on an infraction unless it clearly allowed them to gain advantage i.e. a putting situation. Anything from 100 out isn't going to really matter in the grand scheme of things. Also I try to focus on my game and not what others are doing.
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  #88  
Old 08-01-2013, 03:15 PM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex513ninja View Post
Also from reading a lot of forums and watching a lot of videos I have also come to understand that it tends to be AM players who are rule nazis and pros rarely if ever call those minor infractions.
The couple pro cards I've followed, and the many am cards on which I've been, I would say it's exactly the opposite. I have seen leniency on both sides though.
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  #89  
Old 08-01-2013, 03:36 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by tbird888 View Post
The couple pro cards I've followed, and the many am cards on which I've been, I would say it's exactly the opposite. I have seen leniency on both sides though.
I'll echo that. Much less leniency on pro cards than am cards, but there is often leniency regardless (much to the detriment of the sport, IMO).

I will say that in my experience, there's often just as much incorrect or uninformed rules calling in the pro ranks as in the am ranks. At least in the am ranks, it's somewhat understandable that there might be some innocent misinformation or ignorance going on. It's really sad, though, to hear a misinformed or misinterpreted rule come from the mouth of a very good veteran pro player. Sometimes it's purely unintentional misunderstanding of rules, sometimes it's trying to pull a fast one to gain an advantage. Pros can be a bit more cutthroat, especially the higher up in the standings they are and the more money there is on the line. It can be tense sometimes with how closely everyone is watching everyone else.
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