#171  
Old 03-29-2013, 01:48 PM
nohr nohr is offline
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You are getting wrapped around the axil by the last thing I said. The thing is the PDGA is seeking a solution that costs nothing and doesn't impact

1) PDGA
2) Manufactureres
3) Members (players)

the offical solution of "Players are responsible for using only legal discs in play" puts all of the impact on the members. So they are putting out ground rules in which they are not abiding by.
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  #172  
Old 03-29-2013, 01:58 PM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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I agree with the other points in your post. I kind of figured that you were exaggerating with the stickers, but I wanted to point out that expecting members to control equipment variables we have no control over (that should be handled at the manufacturing level) and purposely ignoring/breaking the rules are two different discussions.

I would love to be able to put stickers on my discs. I hate inking them (OCD) and don't unless I am competing in a sanctioned event where it's a rule. What kills me is that I don't think I've seen anyone in my area throw anything I carry except Wizards. Even then, I haven't seen another G9i Wizard, let alone one that is as beat up as mine.
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  #173  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:16 PM
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Curtis_Valk Curtis_Valk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohr View Post
........the offical solution of "Players are responsible for using only legal discs in play" puts all of the impact on the members. So they are putting out ground rules in which they are not abiding by.
I've read this thread with interest and there are many valid opinions. Here's mine: I don't agree with the above because I think that individual responsibility is the best way to handle most things in life including this. Now, I know many of you are howling that there should be changes in the manufacturing industry and I'm not going to argue against that, mainly because it just ain't gonna happen so it's a moot point. There is also a snowball's chance that the PDGA is going to change its stance.

Now, you can discount my opinion because I haven't been playing for long and don't play tournaments, or just because I'm an older guy and may think differently than the younger "up comers". But I think if you get called for an out of spec disc and suffer a penalty, you've got nothing to whine about and nobody to blame but yourself.

There,
Curtis
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  #174  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:21 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis_Valk View Post
I've read this thread with interest and there are many valid opinions. Here's mine: I don't agree with the above because I think that individual responsibility is the best way to handle most things in life including this. Now, I know many of you are howling that there should be changes in the manufacturing industry and I'm not going to argue against that, mainly because it just ain't gonna happen so it's a moot point. There is also a snowball's chance that the PDGA is going to change its stance.

Now, you can discount my opinion because I haven't been playing for long and don't play tournaments, or just because I'm an older guy and may think differently than the younger "up comers". But I think if you get called for an out of spec disc and suffer a penalty, you've got nothing to whine about and nobody to blame but yourself.

There,
Curtis
Curtis, be honest.. are you really going to go and weigh (with a properly-calibrated scale) and flex test every one of your discs now?
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  #175  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:38 PM
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Curtis_Valk Curtis_Valk is offline
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Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
Curtis, be honest.. are you really going to go and weigh (with a properly-calibrated scale) and flex test every one of your discs now?
I have weighed all of my discs because I'm anal that way, although not on a certified scale. I don't throw any max weight discs at this stage of my game though. I have not done the flex test and to be honest, it makes me cringe to think of taco-ing one (not that I haven't done that already by hitting a tree trunk right off the tee pad). Still, if I were in that situation and got called I think I'd take it like a man and not try to blame the "system" when it was within my means to avoid the penalty.

Curtis
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  #176  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis_Valk View Post
I have weighed all of my discs because I'm anal that way, although not on a certified scale. I don't throw any max weight discs at this stage of my game though. I have not done the flex test and to be honest, it makes me cringe to think of taco-ing one (not that I haven't done that already by hitting a tree trunk right off the tee pad). Still, if I were in that situation and got called I think I'd take it like a man and not try to blame the "system" when it was within my means to avoid the penalty.

Curtis
Yes, but you aren't in that situation.. you don't play tourneys. I mean no offense, but you wrote up a big post about "personal responsibility", when ultimately your post really boils down to "this doesn't affect me, but here's what you other people need to do".

Plus, the potential isn't for this to be a 'getting called' once in a blue moon kind of thing.. technically, a player could be called on it at any time. It could happen to every single player at every single event for every single round.. right now it's just the culture of disc golf that keeps it from happening, but the simple reality is that if enforcement of these rules comes down to individual players, eventually event TD's are going to be required to verify discs more and more, until ultimately TD's are simply going to have to verify every disc in every players' bag before every event. That's an absurd scenario for any TD to have to deal with.
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  #177  
Old 03-29-2013, 09:24 PM
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Curtis_Valk Curtis_Valk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
Yes, but you aren't in that situation.. you don't play tourneys. I mean no offense, but you wrote up a big post about "personal responsibility", when ultimately your post really boils down to "this doesn't affect me, but here's what you other people need to do".
No offense taken and you're absolutely right it doesn't affect me as of yet, hence my disclaimer (discount my opinion for any of the above reasons). I'm glad that you weighed in with your points as everything is food for thought.

You could be right, this might be a future "can of worms" just waiting to burst open. So far though, I haven't seen a single viable solution come forward.

Curtis
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  #178  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:13 PM
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beereakfast beereakfast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis_Valk View Post
No offense taken and you're absolutely right it doesn't affect me as of yet, hence my disclaimer (discount my opinion for any of the above reasons). I'm glad that you weighed in with your points as everything is food for thought.

You could be right, this might be a future "can of worms" just waiting to burst open. So far though, I haven't seen a single viable solution come forward.

Curtis
I'm in your boat in that I only play occasional local doubles rounds where this doesn't matter, but...
It seems to me that what really needs to happen is a more reasonable standard that doesn't involve folding discs nearly in half, thereby ruining them.
Possibly a lighter flex test with a standard jig,. on a scale Where at 5 or 8lb's There has to be an acceptable ratio.
It curves X ammount while suspended by the outer edges of the rim, It passes. Keep the curvature under the destructive level. Seems rather simple to me.
I know any test will still be subject to interpretation but there needs to be a standard that's easier to enforce, with minimal cost.

This has been good reading. Makes a person think.
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  #179  
Old 03-30-2013, 10:08 AM
Widdershins Widdershins is offline
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I was discussing the idea of weighing discs at tournaments with another Pro yesterday. Since it is not done at tournaments (short of the Japan Open with the 150 class limit) we agreed it would be unfair to test just individual disc(s) from just one or some players. In order to be fair, IF a TD wanted to do it, there should be a particular procedure for it. For example:

* Announce the testing procedure ahead of time.

* Have THE testing device available for at least a week ahead of the tournament. There should only be ONE testing device. It must be accurate.

* Have available for sale at the tournament, discs which have been tested and certified as legal

* Have every cashing Pro, as they walk off the course after the last round, submit their entire bag for testing. DQ any player carrying an illegal disc.

None of this is to say I am in favor of testing as my prior posts on this topic make clear. However since the custom of tournaments is to NOT TEST discs, is would be unfair to just spring it on players. It should be started with the Pros simply to save time. The word will filter down quickly.

I have played hundreds of tournaments yet I do not own a digital scale and have never weighed any of the discs in my bag. Many of my discs have custom stamps so do not even have the "PDGA Approved" stamp on them.

There is no easy way to test the flexibility standards of discs as the method used by the Technical Standards Committee is low tech, only minimally accurate and may harm or change a disc's flight pattern.
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