#1  
Old 03-16-2014, 05:20 AM
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ZAMson ZAMson is offline
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Lightbulb Barium?..hardly knew him! Fingerprinty = decay

respectably nerdy dude shows off his collection of radioactive household items

So apparently the orange color of uranium oxide looks awesome as a cereal bowl glaze. WTF for real, never heard of this. Above link is pretty interesting. so is the reddit thread

It reminded me of a collector bro who had a short-lived panic: his old fingerprinty plastic was leaching Barium, and was gonna kill him. He almost rid his life of choice plastic for this fear. No need to worry, let's hope. But like those radioactive plates, products can take on a whole new (glowing) light given time.

Some plastic factory nerds told me that indeed the fingerprint phenomenon in discs is due to chemical leaching. We've all seen it, ranging from fingerprinty to a full-on sweat. The oldest and most leached-out plastic I've handled was simply disintegrating, very brittle.

This past (ongoing?) winter saw a lot of sob story posts about shattered OOP plastic. The stuff has disintegrated to the point that cold use can kill it. Yet the "fingerprinty" tag lives on as a good thing.

Although it's well known that 2001-2's plastic is struggling with cold by now, it seems that folks haven't yet connected the dots. Today's fingerprinty is the future's endangered species.

So how might this affect the bag theory of 2014-2020? With the 2000s' primo vintage candy losing its reliability, will it become less common to bag older discs? Sure, explosion of brands and models. But assume all things equal, if you froze every lineup right now, could an '06 Z-Buzzz be looked at as poor bag-building solely on its age and potential decay? Will "fingerprinty" plastic ever be associated with decay, in either a negative or positive light?

Fingerprinty = decay, but it also = more grippy than off the factory line. It's a desirable artifact of failing parts. In the wise words of my guitar teacher, "this equipment sounds its best.. right before it explodes."

Is it simply worth it to fall in love with a grippy run that's bound for shatter-heaven in 3 or fewer years? Have YOU ever had to give up a run because its decay was too great? Have you CE dealers taken a hit from this?

Will chemical lifespan become the new abrasion resistance? Will we see specialized rapid- or slow-decay materials? What if any advancements could you imagine this bringing in reality or market demand?

Seemed like one topic we haven't run into the ground and would make for interesting discussion. Pick any one or more of my 30 writing prompts there.. haha. Cheers!
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2014, 09:57 AM
dehaas dehaas is offline
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I can see the CE thrower market drying up in a few years, as more and more shatter people are eventually going to be turned off by it and there will be less available. I think the mint collectible stuff will retain value though because it's just sitting on walls.

As much as people get boners for the old stuff, all manufacturers are putting out pretty legit plastic right now. Much better than what was out 3-4 years ago. As far as the next big plastic innovation goes I have no clue, but from my understanding the stuff used in frisbees isn't really anything special. There are much better plastics available but finding the right balance of cost and effectiveness is important right now.

Years down the road when DG finally sells out I wouldn't be surprised to see $30-40 stock discs. If the market gets large enough and it's proven that "pro" grade plastics would sell, you'll start seeing them.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:06 AM
Broken Shoulder Broken Shoulder is offline
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I don't collect or throw OOP plastic, but...

+1 on thread title.
+1 on a humorous post with originality. Well done.

It is interesting to think about plastic in generational blocks and the philosophies employed in bag building as a result. Personally, I don't want that much plastic around so I grab a couple backups and that's it. A disc is a disc is a disc, and when you throw it you learn how it flies as an individual and adjust accordingly. It works for me anyway.

Maybe I'll start a spreadsheet with purchase dates on all my plastic and then just throw them away after five years. Keep it fresh. Hmm.

I just hope Opto Bites aren't radioactive.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:32 AM
kerplunk kerplunk is offline
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Dang, I was ready to take my few fingerprinty discs to work and check them with a Geiger counter.

Instead I guess it is time to sell off my OOP throwers.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:04 PM
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Meulen Meulen is online now
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Old news, sort of.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...t=79357&page=3
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:11 PM
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ZAMson ZAMson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
I'm gonna quote your relevant post because I'd never seen it and it's hugely informative!!

From above linked thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
I'll just let the textbook explain it.

First, we'll talk about plasticizers. Plasticizers are chemicals that have strong solvent effects on certain plastics materials but are only added in moderate concentrations. Therefore, rather than dissolve the plastic material, the plasticizer will just cause the polymer to swell. This swelling permits increased chain movement, especially locally, which makes the plastic material softer and more flexible. This greater chain movement means that the material changes from the glassy state (hard and brittle) to the rubbery state (flexible and soft), a process called plasticization.

Next, we'll talk about plasticizer migration. The problem of plasticizer migration is especially difficult to solve. All materials will migrate to areas of lower concentration. The surface of a plasticized plastic material is usually the area of lowest concentration because the molecules on the surface evaporate or are wiped away. Small molecules generally migrate faster than large molecules, but lower weight plasticizers are generally more effective in softening the plastic material. If a heavier, less volatile plasticizer is used, it will migrate slowly to the surface and evaporate slowly, thus staying as an oily residue.

This oily residue is what many people refer to as "finger-printy". It is direct evidence that your cherished CE is losing it's plasticizer, causing the plastic to become more brittle as time passes. If you would like to test this theory, use a clean towel to buff the residue off of the disc. Once clean, go put it on the top shelf of your closet. Check the disc a month or two later. I'm fairly confident in saying that you'll find the disc is once again, "finger-printy". Hopefully this explains that condition, and why you see more CE shattering, not only in 30 degree weather, but 50 degree weather.

Source:
Strong, A. Brent. "Chapter 5." Plastics: Materials and Processing. 3rd ed. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Pearson Prentice Hall, 2006. 162-63. Print.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:13 PM
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BigSky BigSky is offline
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I was never inclined to waste money on old plastic. Now I am even less so.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:24 PM
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Mabuku1 Mabuku1 is offline
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I spent a few hundred on discs before, but I eventually sold them all. I decided I wasn't going to get any more old discs when I saw all the old discs shattering this winter.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:39 PM
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Meulen Meulen is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
I'm gonna quote your relevant post because I'd never seen it and it's hugely informative!!

From above linked thread:
Thanks!

To clarify, the first two paragraphs are from the cited textbook, the third paragraph is my own writing. I was asked before whether the textbook specifically talked about CE plastic.
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2014, 12:40 PM
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joecoin joecoin is offline
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This explains why I'm going bald.

(Note to self: Take disc out from under pillow.)
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