#31  
Old 03-17-2014, 08:33 AM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanJon View Post
It was in response to the comical comment.

Besides anytime people talk about CE and plastic break down it inevitably turns into why do you throw such expensive discs?

What if you've had them for 10 years? They weren't as expensive then.


Cool OP though.
Why not sell them for profit and throw current run stuff?

I was the comical comment so I figure I should be the one responding to you. Feel free to throw that $2000 Roc or Aviar or whatever that's on discgolfmuseum, I won't stop you. I've known "fingerprinty" = breaking down for years but many people reading this thread or similar ones haven't. I wasn't targeting the guys who have been playing for 20 years and more likely than not have a disposable income...it was toward the people that have been playing for at most 1-3 and answer the HOD with "2nd run blueberry CE Valkyrie (x2)" on a 300' hole.

/jack
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2014, 09:26 AM
kerplunk kerplunk is offline
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Originally Posted by LoPan12 View Post
You'd be surprised. A bunch of bananas can give counts, the mantles from white gas/propane camp lanterns, all your smoke detectors.
Hell, I've got a keychain with two tritium tubes. They're coated on the inside with phosphor, and glow due to the tritium's beta decay. They'll glow for over 13 years. In the dark. I forget what the count rate was on it...I work in a nuke plant, so we have geiger counters everywhere. I'm pretty used to a slow click just from background.
That keychain sounds cool. But I didn't think you could measure tritium with a geiger counter anyway?
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2014, 11:57 AM
DagG DagG is offline
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Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
Now that's interesting! So in industrial applications there are fixes and whatnot. Any of them happen to be grippy as hell? That'd be a nice combo
303 protectant is a consumer product, not industrial. One of the more common uses is for auto detailing since auto interiors are largely plastic and have significant UV exposure so it can be found in many stores which sell auto supplies. I haven't used the product for a while but do recall that it didn't go on oily or greasy so, while it may not improve grip, it probably wouldn't hurt it.
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  #34  
Old 03-17-2014, 02:18 PM
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7ontheline 7ontheline is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
So I have a couple of the first run CE's, and noticed that they are sweating chalky residue now. Anyone know the best material to wipe off the chalk with?
Chains, duh

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
So how might this affect the bag theory of 2014-2020?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
I don't think you read the OP

The OP was about how decaying primos will affect bag theory and new developments.
For me, its the archer not the arrow but some arrows(CE) feel better to the point where I believe its possible to buy a slightly better game with discs that fit your feel and flight requirements. I've exploded a well used ce QMS on my first round with it but at this point that only CE frisbee loss is a lot less expensive than all the ProV1s I've sliced up or hit in the lake.

My current theory to extend my CE's life is to cycled them out in the off season when its freezing but in the spring they have to fight to win their old spots back. So far CE JLS/QJs, CE QMSs, and CE Eagles haven't been defeated but I'm coming to the conclusion that its not worth it to look for further backups. When they all explode there are enough good plastics and molds currently available to build a solid line up so I'll just move on to the next best thing.

Class of 2014:
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2014, 07:10 PM
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DanJon DanJon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GripEnemy View Post
Why not sell them for profit and throw current run stuff?

I was the comical comment so I figure I should be the one responding to you. Feel free to throw that $2000 Roc or Aviar or whatever that's on discgolfmuseum, I won't stop you. I've known "fingerprinty" = breaking down for years but many people reading this thread or similar ones haven't. I wasn't targeting the guys who have been playing for 20 years and more likely than not have a disposable income...it was toward the people that have been playing for at most 1-3 and answer the HOD with "2nd run blueberry CE Valkyrie (x2)" on a 300' hole.

/jack


Haha. OK. I can agree with that.

Honestly I don't care if my CE Valk or TL explodes after hitting a tree.

I might shed a single tear, and then I'll move on.
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  #36  
Old 03-17-2014, 07:12 PM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Originally Posted by DanJon View Post
Haha. OK. I can agree with that.

Honestly I don't care if my CE Valk or TL explodes after hitting a tree.

I might shed a single tear, and then I'll move on.
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  #37  
Old 03-17-2014, 07:15 PM
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Jukeshoe Jukeshoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
respectably nerdy dude shows off his collection of radioactive household items

So apparently the orange color of uranium oxide looks awesome as a cereal bowl glaze. WTF for real, never heard of this. Above link is pretty interesting. so is the reddit thread

It reminded me of a collector bro who had a short-lived panic: his old fingerprinty plastic was leaching Barium, and was gonna kill him. He almost rid his life of choice plastic for this fear. No need to worry, let's hope. But like those radioactive plates, products can take on a whole new (glowing) light given time.

Some plastic factory nerds told me that indeed the fingerprint phenomenon in discs is due to chemical leaching. We've all seen it, ranging from fingerprinty to a full-on sweat. The oldest and most leached-out plastic I've handled was simply disintegrating, very brittle.

This past (ongoing?) winter saw a lot of sob story posts about shattered OOP plastic. The stuff has disintegrated to the point that cold use can kill it. Yet the "fingerprinty" tag lives on as a good thing.

Although it's well known that 2001-2's plastic is struggling with cold by now, it seems that folks haven't yet connected the dots. Today's fingerprinty is the future's endangered species.

So how might this affect the bag theory of 2014-2020? With the 2000s' primo vintage candy losing its reliability, will it become less common to bag older discs? Sure, explosion of brands and models. But assume all things equal, if you froze every lineup right now, could an '06 Z-Buzzz be looked at as poor bag-building solely on its age and potential decay? Will "fingerprinty" plastic ever be associated with decay, in either a negative or positive light?

Fingerprinty = decay, but it also = more grippy than off the factory line. It's a desirable artifact of failing parts. In the wise words of my guitar teacher, "this equipment sounds its best.. right before it explodes."

Is it simply worth it to fall in love with a grippy run that's bound for shatter-heaven in 3 or fewer years? Have YOU ever had to give up a run because its decay was too great? Have you CE dealers taken a hit from this?

Will chemical lifespan become the new abrasion resistance? Will we see specialized rapid- or slow-decay materials? What if any advancements could you imagine this bringing in reality or market demand?

Seemed like one topic we haven't run into the ground and would make for interesting discussion. Pick any one or more of my 30 writing prompts there.. haha. Cheers!
Marketing ploy to sell more (read: newer) discs?
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2014, 06:29 PM
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LoPan12 LoPan12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunk View Post
That keychain sounds cool. But I didn't think you could measure tritium with a geiger counter anyway?
The beta particles are heavily shielded by the tube glass and acrylic, but a few bits can make it out to a counter. If I remember, I'll bring it back in sometime and get a count on it if your'e curious
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2014, 11:12 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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How it effects your bag kinds depends on you, doesn't it?

I've got a peeling 9X KC Aviar and I struggle with what to do with it. It was purchased new and has been in my putter rotation forever. Sentimentally, I envisioned the end of that disc being hung in the garage. Retired after years of service. Reality now shows that continuing to use it might result in it broken in pieces. Do I throw it until it breaks or give it that place of honor on the pegboard? It creates a dilemma, but the dilemma is unique to someone like me.

If I'm a new guy or somebody without old plastic, the question of old plastic is different. There is no real sentimental attachment. The idea is that it will perform better or make you look cooler as a thrower or will make you some money as an investment. As an investment, the discs that hold value are the ones that have the double whammy of being a) desirable as throwers and b) are somewhat rare. CE was the classic double whammy of discs people wanted to throw AND were in relatively short supply, which is why they are through the roof.

The question for me is that if they lose appeal as throwers due to the breakdown of the material, do they lose value when the thrower market is no longer bidding on them? Consequently, if the prices go down do they end up back in the throwers market as the monetary risk of throwing them decreases? Or do they simply continue to rise as collectibles since the throwers will be shattered remains at a park near you and the scarcity will offset the player that bail from the market?

OR...is CE do damn sexy that people will throw it no matter the risk until we shatter them all?

Back to my poor old 9X KC Aviar; most people I have shown it to give it the "throw it 'til it dies" answer. My anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that disc golfers as a breed tend more towards the disposable. There has been an embrace of water hazards even though those hazards put our sainted equipment in danger. Not only do people throw CE in the cold, they throw them over water! WTF, people?

So I think some of us that love golf discs will geek out and put away our 9X KC Aviars or whatever golf discs you love. The majority of players will throw them until they break or the lose them and not really give it another though other than what are they going to replace it with.

I think the market has responded with discs already to replace them with, but none will hit the psychological hold CE has on us. CE is was "one of a kind" when it was introduced. Everything that comes after is NOT one of a kind; that spot is taken.

At some point they will effectively be gone, though. They will dwindle from attrition down to a few collectibles. Given the options people have for replacements, that process will be spread out among many different discs/plastics/manufacturers so the concentrated demand will never focus on one small set of discs again (sorry to all of you sitting on stacks of Prodigy waiting for it to be the next CE; ain't gonna happen.)

What was the question?

Last edited by Three Putt; 03-22-2014 at 11:15 AM.
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2014, 11:33 AM
Broken Shoulder Broken Shoulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
How it effects your bag kinds depends on you, doesn't it?

I've got a peeling 9X KC Aviar and I struggle with what to do with it. It was purchased new and has been in my putter rotation forever. Sentimentally, I envisioned the end of that disc being hung in the garage. Retired after years of service. Reality now shows that continuing to use it might result in it broken in pieces. Do I throw it until it breaks or give it that place of honor on the pegboard? It creates a dilemma, but the dilemma is unique to someone like me.

If I'm a new guy or somebody without old plastic, the question of old plastic is different. There is no real sentimental attachment. The idea is that it will perform better or make you look cooler as a thrower or will make you some money as an investment. As an investment, the discs that hold value are the ones that have the double whammy of being a) desirable as throwers and b) are somewhat rare. CE was the classic double whammy of discs people wanted to throw AND were in relatively short supply, which is why they are through the roof.

The question for me is that if they lose appeal as throwers due to the breakdown of the material, do they lose value when the thrower market is no longer bidding on them? Consequently, if the prices go down do they end up back in the throwers market as the monetary risk of throwing them decreases? Or do they simply continue to rise as collectibles since the throwers will be shattered remains at a park near you and the scarcity will offset the player that bail from the market?

OR...is CE do damn sexy that people will throw it no matter the risk until we shatter them all?

Back to my poor old 9X KC Aviar; most people I have shown it to give it the "throw it 'til it dies" answer. My anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that disc golfers as a breed tend more towards the disposable. There has been an embrace of water hazards even though those hazards put our sainted equipment in danger. Not only do people throw CE in the cold, they throw them over water! WTF, people?

So I think some of us that love golf discs will geek out and put away our 9X KC Aviars or whatever golf discs you love. The majority of players will throw them until they break or the lose them and not really give it another though other than what are they going to replace it with.

I think the market has responded with discs already to replace them with, but none will hit the psychological hold CE has on us. CE is was "one of a kind" when it was introduced. Everything that comes after is NOT one of a kind; that spot is taken.

At some point they will effectively be gone, though. They will dwindle from attrition down to a few collectibles. Given the options people have for replacements, that process will be spread out among many different discs/plastics/manufacturers so the concentrated demand will never focus on one small set of discs again (sorry to all of you sitting on stacks of Prodigy waiting for it to be the next CE; ain't gonna happen.)

What was the question?
I'm more on the sentimental side of things, so I would be of the opinion that you should hang that Aviar up in the garage so you can have it forever. It is an odd dilemma though, when the tool becomes more than just a tool, and I really have no issue with the throw-it-til-it-breaks mentality. But it sounds like your Aviar has become more than just a disc, and for me, that's the moment when the decision is made. You can find another tool to do the work, and do it well, but you won't find another companion off the shelf that's done what your Aviar has done for years. At some point I think you honor that by ensuring that it will never be broken or lost.
And you can always carry a picture of it in your bag if you need to, for that good mojo, or even carry it in the bag if you can will yourself not to throw it.
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