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Old 12-07-2008, 09:38 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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How do domes affect flight?

I'm assuming the more dome the more glide to a disc. My 167g Champ Firebird has a dome and my 168g Star Firebird has no dome. I don't think I seen my Star catch air and stall and seems to hang lower to the ground.

What else affects glide? The depth of the rim I'm assuming. The Discraft Flick has a shallow rim and I'm thinking it doesn't have much glide either. Although the rim is very wide which seems to make it very overstable.
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:58 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Glide and understable are directly related. Overstable discs always have terrible glide ratings. Understable discs always have good glide ratings. If you look at the Innova discs, the only discs with a glide rating of 5 or higher that do not have a negative number in its turn rating are the XCal, Skeeter, TeeBird, Condor and Aero. They all have a turn rating of 0. You can throw the Condor and Aero out because their glide is a side effect of their large diameters, so there are really only three "stable" discs with a high glide rating. The rest of the "Glide 5" or higher discs read like a who's-who of flippy discs...Stingray, Coyote, Cobra, Kite, Leopard, Archangel, Dragon, Sidewinder, Roadrunner, SL, Beast, Monarch... Inversely, the Spider, Wolf and Sonic are the only Innova discs with a negative turn rating with a glide rating less than 4. The other 24 Innova discs with a negative turn rating all have a glide rating of 4 or above. So really except in a few cases, Glide=Understable.

The disc with the highest glide rating is a large diameter understable disc called the Jaguar. It's super flippy (-5 turn) and has a HUGE 24.1 CM diameter. The combination of those two factor make it the perfect "glide" disc. Unfortunately, it is so slow that while it stays in the air forever, it does not go anywhere. You stand there and watch it float in the air for so long that you think it has gone a mile, then it lands 200 ft in front of you.

As far as the dome goes, I'm not sure how that works. I thought the whole "Frisbees fly because..." thing had to do with the air traveling faster over the top of the disc than the bottom creating lower pressure above the disc than below and causing the disc to rise. I would figure a flat disc will allow the air to travel faster over the disc and help that lift and a dome would slow down the air because it has to travel farther, hurting the lift. But the design of the nose and the bottom of the disc has something to do with it as well, so there are probably things that offset the effect. The larger dome might create more turbulence under the disc, so the increase in pressure under the disc might more than offset the pressure created on top of the disc. But there is a bunch of other stuff in play like angular velocity and drag that I have no concept of. There is probably no 100% guarantee of anything. I think most of the really in-depth, high-tech experimentation with flying rotating orbs is super-secret, highly-classified UFO research that if released would have the unintended consequence of giving life to a kick-ass new generation of Frisbees.

From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:37 AM
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ERicJ ERicJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.
This old Innova Disc chart has the opposite: flat discs are more overstable.
http://web.archive.org/web/200107010...lect_chart.pdf
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Old 12-10-2008, 03:08 AM
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Domes cause lift. Flatter domes cause less lift. It's my understanding that lift also causes high-speed turn.
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:21 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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It depends on the mold. Some discs get faster and more high speed understable but low speed overstable the flatter they get, so while they may seem more overstable to some, others find they're more understable.
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:10 PM
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Take a look at a Banshee. The top of the disc is almost concaved or has a "negative dome" if you will. With that being said the Banshee is my go-to for overstability. I think Firebirds are the same.
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERicJ View Post
This old Innova Disc chart has the opposite: flat discs are more overstable.
http://web.archive.org/web/200107010...lect_chart.pdf
Yeah, that's why they took it off the chart. For discs like a Roc, flat=overstable. For the super-mongo-high speed-huge wing-big distance discs (which is what I always assume we are talking about) dome=overstable. So it really depends.
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:54 PM
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valkyriefb11 valkyriefb11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley View Post
Take a look at a Banshee. The top of the disc is almost concaved or has a "negative dome" if you will. With that being said the Banshee is my go-to for overstability. I think Firebirds are the same.
The first banshee I bought had that "negative dome." At first I thought something was wrong with it but then I saw some other banshee's that were all the same way.

Side question: how does all of this dome stuff relate to the new Boss? I know that some of the bosses have a high dome others are more flat ... does nayone know which ones are going to be more overstable? is it the high-domed?
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by valkyriefb11 View Post
how does all of this dome stuff relate to the new Boss? I know that some of the bosses have a high dome others are more flat ... does nayone know which ones are going to be more overstable? is it the high-domed?
Flat Bosses are flippy. Domey Bosses are overstable.
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2008, 01:11 PM
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because of their terrible glide some understable drivers seem to get their distance from pure speed. the Flick is very low profile and very aerodynamic - it goes very fast and then falls with zero glide. A larger dome would give the disc a higher profile & therefore a slower disc but would have more glide. I remember seeing somethign where mark ellis likes finding certain discs with the flattest tops. since he is a FH pro, the more overstable the discs, the better they behave for him.
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