#361  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:56 PM
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bikinjack bikinjack is offline
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I also remember riding across what is now Renny Gold 12 as part of the mountain bike trail. Now the trail goes through through the woods off to the left of 13. Huge improvement.
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  #362  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:02 PM
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Stan McDaniel Stan McDaniel is offline
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Originally Posted by bikinjack View Post
I also remember riding across what is now Renny Gold 12 as part of the mountain bike trail. Now the trail goes through through the woods off to the left of 13. Huge improvement.
For bikers and discers.
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  #363  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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Stan McDaniel Stan McDaniel is offline
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Originally Posted by rshrevo View Post
I don't think so. since the property is on state owned land i believe that they would keep everything as natural as possible without any additions like netting. due to the local birds possibly getting caught in the netting.
Sorry to post so much stuff after your post to John. You probably need to p.m. him or he may not find your question.
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  #364  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:38 PM
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jsc430 jsc430 is offline
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Selah Ranch - Lakeside being such a spectacular course I find myself looking for cons as i write my review. One thing that's glaring at me is the path from 17's basket to 18's tee as it cuts directly across 1's fairway.To me its one of the only negatives on the entire course.

How did you plan that when you finalized the design? Do you every see it being a problem during tourney play? Is riding around the back side of 1's tee box an option?

Thanks in advance John. My wife and i were just in Talco last week. We had an experience playing in the snow and we snapped some great pics of the snow covered courses.
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  #365  
Old 01-05-2013, 02:58 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by rshrevo View Post
John,

I am looking to get a course put in a park near my house. The area is all wooded with a few open areas. The course would be sharing property with bike trails that currently run through it. I am trying to keep away from the trails as much as possible and trying to place only tee pads near the trail shooting away from the trail. What I am wondering is for the basket area. How close can I safely place a basket in front of the trail. I was thinking of trying to place the basket at least 100 feet away from the trail. Or would I need to increase the distance from the trail for safety reasons. I would not like to throw towards the trail at all but the trails wind their way back and forth through the wooded area it is hard sometimes not to get close somehow.
Randy, I think you're right to be extra cautious, and I think you got some good advice from Stan. You mentioned that your course is wooded, so I would think 100' might be a little excessive.

The criterion I would use is that I don't want any shots to ever land on or across the bike trail. So make sure you have enough buffer to prevent any "magic" shots from going through and, as Stan says, plan on the possibility that you might lose some of your buffer at some point.

The best advice for these situations is probably just what you said up front: tee near the trails and throw away from them.

One other thing to think about would be where to have disc golfers crossing the trails to get to the next hole. Stay away from blind spots. Disc golfers and bikers should be able to see each other coming, so there are no surprises. Hope your course turns out great.
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  #366  
Old 01-05-2013, 03:31 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by jsc430 View Post
Selah Ranch - Lakeside being such a spectacular course I find myself looking for cons as i write my review. One thing that's glaring at me is the path from 17's basket to 18's tee as it cuts directly across 1's fairway.To me its one of the only negatives on the entire course.

How did you plan that when you finalized the design? Do you every see it being a problem during tourney play? Is riding around the back side of 1's tee box an option?

Thanks in advance John. My wife and i were just in Talco last week. We had an experience playing in the snow and we snapped some great pics of the snow covered courses.
Jeff, I'm glad to hear that you're struggling to find things to criticize on Lakeside. That's a good problem to have.

Obviously it's not ideal when the walk between holes crosses a fairway. The design process always involves a series of choices, so the designer is constantly weighing the pros and cons of each decision. Obviously I had to think about this choice a little.

In this case, I felt like the cons were pretty small. I've used this technique before at places like Riverside Park in Victoria and in San Saba. I learned that if you have players cross the fairway well into a par four or par five hole, it's really not a big deal -- we had lots of big tournaments on those courses with no problems. In fact, that type of crossing creates fewer problems than things like having baskets too close too each other, tees too close to each other, etc. At Lakeside, it's very easy for the group going to #18 to allow someone on #1 to throw, and it's probably even easier for a player on #1 to let a group walk through before throwing.

I would be uncomfortable having players cross within 300'-400' of the tee, and I can't really imagine using this routing technique on a par 3. But the way it works on Lakeside, I really consider it no big deal, based on how well it's worked in the past.

There are two substantial benefits to this particular routing:

* #18 is a great finishing hole with huge potential for scoring swings.

* The balance of the holes on the lake is critical to the success of the course. You have a par five with water on the left (#7) and a par five with water on the right (#4). Then you have a par four with water on the left (#18) and a par four with water on the right (#2). I'm oversimplifying the complexities of the balance, but you get the idea. If you were to put #1 on the lake and bring #18 inland, you would decimate that critical balance.

So that was my thinking. And I think the tradeoff was absolutely worthwhile. Still, I won't mind if you give the course a 4.999 in your review.

I'm so glad that you're enjoying Selah so much and spreading the word. Sorry you had to play in snow, but I thought your pictures were great. The good thing about snow, of course, is that it melts and helps refill the ponds and the lake. At this point, we still need it. Thanks.
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  #367  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:36 AM
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Stan McDaniel Stan McDaniel is offline
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Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Randy, I think you're right to be extra cautious, You mentioned that your course is wooded, so I would think 100' might be a little excessive.

Hey John and Randy

There are a lot of "wooded" areas on courses around here where 100' of buffer would be more than sufficient and some where it might not. Woods can be sparse or dense, have thick underbrush or vines or can be mostly mature woods that are really porous. It would seem that designing with common sense would suffice, yet my common sense has failed me on occasion. Imagining how people will throw errant shots, or how often they will throw errant shots is a real challenge. I have had to adjust holes I had built after seeing the results of how people play (misplay) a hole. If you have the room, I would recommend as much buffer as you can afford. Plus, if you need to adjust your course at a later date it will provide you some wiggle room to move a tee or green.

As an afterthought, downhill holes probably need more buffer as shots can tend to glide on past, and uphill holes probably don't need as much buffer as shots don't usually go gliding past while fighting gravity.

Time for me to go measure and mark tee locations on our new beginner course.
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  #368  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by Stan McDaniel View Post
If you have the room, I would recommend as much buffer as you can afford. Plus, if you need to adjust your course at a later date it will provide you some wiggle room to move a tee or green.

As an afterthought, downhill holes probably need more buffer as shots can tend to glide on past, and uphill holes probably don't need as much buffer as shots don't usually go gliding past while fighting gravity.
Both good points. Thank you, professor McDaniel.
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  #369  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:05 PM
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sloppydisc sloppydisc is offline
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Ok, after grinding away on Rock Ridge #17 I have a question! Feel free to disregard this if answering gives away and proprietary business knowledge.

When designing a course should or do you consider the landscapes degree of difficulty? As in, do you look at an area and say "this has to be a short hole because to make a 500' hole through here will either take way too much time, labor or money."

Or, do you simply create the best design possible, and ignore the financial and labor considerations? Or does it depend on who's doing the labor and/or rotting the bill?
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  #370  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:33 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Yes-No-Yes
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