Ask John Houck about Course Design & Development

[roclover]

Hey Chuck,

It's not the best drawing, but the angle is almost impossible to hit from the "birdie zone". Those brown stars are all trees, many of which are over 100 ft high. The star on the top of the hill is about a 40 ft tree that really pinches the angle. You'd have to throw a shot high enough to clear the hill and the tree and then turn almost 90 degrees. If it fades out, you're in the wetlands, if it turns over, you're in the wetlands. Usually from the birdie landing zone the best shot is a soft turnover to the top of the hill just under the tree, or a big forehand stall shot over the tree and then crashing to the 175 ft landing zone.

The Eagle landing zone is really just opening up the angle. Now with two great long shots it is possible to hit the green. Does that make more sense now?

[Cgkdisc]

Yes. I just couldn't tell how tough it was to hit the angle to the pin from the birdie landing zone if you had enough power.

[mhulkman]

hey John, thanks again for fielding questions on here as time permits. Have you or anyone else on this board designed a course with NO trees? We are about to break ground on the 1st course in the Carson City/Carson Valley, Nv area and there is nothing but sage brush. The property sits on the foothills of the Sierras so there is a lot of elevation change along with a small canyon and dry wash. Some of the sage brush is 6ft tall so there are definately options for hiding baskets, placing them on slopes, and having them near the edges of the wash. We can probably utilize the canyon/wash for 6-9 holes for throwing over and around and making risk/reward shots but other than that we are finding a hard time making tee shots a challenge when there is no wind. The prevailing afternoon winds will definately make it a challenge. the plan is to have 12 par 3's and 6 par 4's. Any tips or advice from anyone would be highly appreciated!
Thanks, Mike

[Stan McDaniel]

Wow, what a challenge with no trees. I have one thought for you. Sometimes when I have to put a hole in an open area where there are no trees I try to find where the land dropss away a little bit about 50' before you get to the basket. The effect I try to create is that due to the drop in terrain, the thrower cannot see about 18" to 2' of the bottom of the pole. This makes the basket look closer to the thrower than it really is. So, unless the thrower trusts the disctance on the tee sign there is a good possibility they will come up a little short and have a more challenging putt.

[Cgkdisc]

Sounds like using the ball golf "links" style hazard method might be needed. You can have areas marked as OB if you land in them and some could be Buncrs where you must move back to the edge of the buncr on the line of play but with no penalty.

[Peterb]

topography and prevailing wind are viable hazards. As are large boulders. Incorporate all of these into your design and your course will be more difficult than you think.

[BogeyNoMore]

I like Stan's suggestion about playing with the visual perspective. And Peterb's suggestion of using any prevailing winds could help you determine wher to place tees/pins for max effect.

Might be difficult to do, but you could try to position a few baskets where people are likely to have to putt over/around sagebrush/bushes from where their upshot lies, trying to deny them a straight run at the basket.

[optidiscic]

Trees provide visual perspective and aiming points...without them DG can be maddeningly difficult for a woods player...it's a different kind of golf in the open I say embrace it

Use the openness and create some cool greens where landing properly is optimal....incorporate slopes, boulders, etc. in different ways elevate a basket on a boulder....place a basket behind a boulder to promote drive/approach placement/ Use the wash to punish bad shots or long shots or short shots....in the open areas dont hesitate to place a wide open 280 footer out there...every course should have one of those I should absolutely 2 this hole every time but I messed up again moments...Nothing wrong with a hole like this as hole 1 or timed between 2 difficult par 4s etc

It sounds like fun terrain...let the imagination move you and disregard what the experts and other disc golfers think

I would say

[optidiscic]

I wouldnt get too crazy with the oob unless its the bottom of the wash or a safety concern......I'd hate to see the course get too gimmicked up when there are other more natural ways to make it difficult

try to think of ways to punish aggressive play and punish bad shots....don't think of good shots when designing....think of penalizing the bad shots and design from this paradigm

[BogeyNoMore]

Originally Posted by optidiscic

try to think of ways to punish aggressive play and punish bad shots....don't think of good shots when designing....think of penalizing the bad shots and design from this paradigm

Never thought about it that way... makes sense. I like it.