#531  
Old 05-15-2013, 12:54 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by grodney View Post
Oh, okay -- I was just thinking you would need more sets of tees to accommodate that wide a range of skills -- even from beginner up to "blue". Apparently that's not the case.

And if your "top top pro" accommodation is a configuration (extra sleeves) and not permanent, that reduces cost (other than the sleeves and the minimal clearing you mention).

Sounds delicious. Thanks for your thoughts.
Rodney, you bring up several good points and questions.

In the particular case of Frost Valley, they do want to host major tournaments, so that's how we determined the "top level" there. And when I say that we're accommodating all levels, here's what I mean.

First, the course will have red and blue tees. I suppose you could say that we're not accommodating white level players, but I think they'll be happy with their choice of tees. Similarly, anyone who is "sub-red" should be able to handle the red tees, which are generally about 200' for par threes and 400' for par fours. There will be extra pin placements to get certain holes up to gold level.

Frost Valley has additional users to take care of, so we are setting up a 3-hole course with three sets of tees. Kids with disabilities will be able to play three holes that are flat and each about 100' long. If they want more, they can then play the same loop with 150' tees, and then with 200' tees. If they've graduated from there, they should be ready for the red tees on the hillier course. In many cases, campers and staff won't have time for 18 holes or even 9 holes, so we'll be making extra tees (probably not concrete) to create a few 4-6 hole loops that are easier and more convenient.

So, for all those reasons, I felt comfortable saying we had taken care of "all" skill levels.
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  #532  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:08 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by texhop58 View Post
I recently helped my hometown in north Texas with course design. It was my first attempt. I had several people ask me if it was a houck design. How do you work on a design for an area and how much time do you put in on design phase of a course. For instance on mine, i started by using a sketch book for general hole ideas. This helped me make sure i would work in enough different shots. I knew the general area and took to google maps and drew up 6 possible courses, with several of the sketch book ideas worked in to the map. Then went out and walked the course area to find tree batches or certain "areas" that would make for epic shots or would fit my sketch book ideas. I then Re worked 3 of my favorite layouts with the new areas added in. Finally took a buddy out and had him throw the possible holes to add or decrease distance or change tee off lines for trees. I spent probably close to 30-40 hours on field work. Just curious to see your general approach.
Hopper, it sounds like you put a lot of thought and care into your design. My understanding is that a lot of designers work the way you describe. I actually do it differently.

I start by walking the property very thoroughly, looking for the best "areas" first. Once I feel like I know it completely, I look for the best holes on the property, and then I see how I can route them together. This approach is much more time-consuming and can get pretty frustrating. For one thing, it requires that you be willing to give up some of your favorite holes in order to make the big picture work. I believe that this "inside out" approach gives me the best chance of finding the best course that property can accommodate. And even once I've found a routing I like, I always keep asking, "Is there a way I can make it better?"

These days, it's not unusual for me to spend 200+ hours in the field, especially if it's mostly wooded. One of the biggest lessons I've learned over the years is not to force my concepts onto the property. I need to "listen" to the property and let it tell me where it wants to go. OK, maybe we still wrestle a little some times, but I'm a much better listener than I used to be. The old advice to players, "Take what the course will give you" is also advice that's helpful to designers.
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  #533  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:16 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
If you look at the statistics, in ball golf, the "key" shot (at least for the PGA Pros) happens to be the shot that is struck to approach the green. Since the typical PGA course has 18 holes with which 14-18 of them are 'approached' with an full / semi-full hit iron (opposed to a chip), it's the case of "who hits them closer". Ex: When Nick Price became #1 in the world (1993 I think), his avg distance to the pin was a full foot closer than the Pro in 2nd (for that stat). That is a huge margin!

Bringing this around to disc golf, since the majority of our holes are par-3s, our "key shot" happens also to be the drive...as the 'drive' and 'approach' are all rolled into one. Want to score low? "Approach" the pin accurately.

Karl
Karl, that's a fascinating stat about Nick Price. Have you seen it for other years? It would be interesting to know how well it holds up. One foot is, indeed, a huge margin.

Maybe "drive for show," at least in ball golf, is really most appropriate for top players, since they rarely miss the fairway.
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  #534  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:21 PM
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grodney grodney is offline
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Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
So, for all those reasons, I felt comfortable saying we had taken care of "all" skill levels.
Wow, sounds like you are pretty much getting to create the dream in that regard. That's great.
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  #535  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Karl, that's a fascinating stat about Nick Price. Have you seen it for other years? It would be interesting to know how well it holds up. One foot is, indeed, a huge margin.

Maybe "drive for show," at least in ball golf, is really most appropriate for top players, since they rarely miss the fairway.
John,

Most times (individual years) the number is not that great - he was "extra on" that year (and the results showed). But there is a very strong correlation between length of first putt (on a GIR) and the player's score - as 5.5' putts only fall ~50% of the time and steadily get 'worse' the further you are from the hole.

The "drive for show, putt for dough" statement was first uttered 50+ years ago and while the "drive for show" is STILL prevalent because laymen can't hit drives like Garrigus and Watson (so they (the drives) are still 'showy'), the "putt for dough" can be analogized as any blind pig can find an acorn in the woods once in a while (making a long putt) and IS done by weekend warriors.

Besides, people have a tendency to think about / remember "the ends" (of any m.o.), and thus equating to such 'ends' allows such wordings to be remembered...it's a catchy phrase. A lot more catchy than "drive for show, and hit accurate irons so you can make more putts"!?!

Karl
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  #536  
Old 05-15-2013, 02:25 PM
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discmeettree discmeettree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
If that's true, then that's a problem. The signs should all say "Tee Signs by HouckDesign." If there's anywhere on those signs -- or any other signs -- that say "Course Designed by" then please send me a picture when you go back, and we'll talk to the parks department. Thanks.


It's on the main sign on the bathroom wall next to the baseball diamonds. I'm not on that side of town but next time I get over there I'll send you a picture for sure.
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  #537  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:05 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by discmeettree View Post
It's on the main sign on the bathroom wall next to the baseball diamonds. I'm not on that side of town but next time I get over there I'll send you a picture for sure.
Thanks.
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  #538  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:14 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
A lot more catchy than "drive for show, and hit accurate irons so you can make more putts"!?!
Can't argue with that.

Do we know who originally coined the phrase?
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  #539  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:15 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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I'm sorry. Do we know who coined the phrase?
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  #540  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:32 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Bobby Locke, South African golfer who was a good putter. Seeing Playing Attributes section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Locke
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