Noob questions - Discing down, RHFH, form costistency

[Bubbajoe]

Originally Posted by CwAlbino

Yes, probably nose up. Also, the sound doesn't have to do with snap. It probably means you are pressing down with your thumb instead of gripping with your hole hand. Could also account for nose up.


Make sure your fingers make the pivot point and that you are gripping firmly with all fingers. Read this:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...t=22984&page=3

When I say "snap" I'm not referring to the elusive "Snap" that everyone is so desperately searching for but the actual sound of your fingers smacking your palm after a good rip. Any who back to FH:

So I was playing catch with some buddies from an Ultimate back ground and I asked for some FH pointers. Without hesitation one of them tells me to switch feet. Up to this point for a RHFH I've lead with my left foot as you would if you were side arming a baseball. He wanted me to lead with my right and instead of hunching over he suggested more bent knees, butt down. This did seem to make short FH a little easier.

So my question to the FH'ders is: Assuming a 300' approach and in (I'm not talking max distance) what foot do you lead with?

[Hegemony]

FH approach shot, standard is to lead with the left foot. I have lead with the right when throwing around obstructions. It makes the whole through feel arm based with little-to-no body involvement.

On the BH nose up thing...

I've been trying to throw the disk flat on line with the flight path height I'd like it to achieve. Does throwing nose down imply the flight plate being exposed to the oncoming air on the same flight plane? Wouldn't that cause drag and/or OAT? Or does nose down imply to actually throw the disc on a declining altitude flight trajectory and let the wing of the disc and its spin lift it during flight?

I took some pictures of my BH grip that I will post later. I think I'm doing it right based on the pics I've seen, but will let you guys comment.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I fully understood that my thumb and fingers "snapping" together was not the wrist snap that generates spin. What it implies to me is that there is pressure at the rip and the disc is ripping out of my hand. That sound, combined with the abrasions and callouses forming on my finger pads makes me think I'm getting good rip.

[Bubbajoe]

Originally Posted by Hegemony

FH approach shot, standard is to lead with the left foot. I have lead with the right when throwing around obstructions. It makes the whole through feel arm based with little-to-no body involvement.

On the BH nose up thing...

I've been trying to throw the disk flat on line with the flight path height I'd like it to achieve. Does throwing nose down imply the flight plate being exposed to the oncoming air on the same flight plane? Wouldn't that cause drag and/or OAT? Or does nose down imply to actually throw the disc on a declining altitude flight trajectory and let the wing of the disc and its spin lift it during flight?

I took some pictures of my BH grip that I will post later. I think I'm doing it right based on the pics I've seen, but will let you guys comment.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I fully understood that my thumb and fingers "snapping" together was not the wrist snap that generates spin. What it implies to me is that there is pressure at the rip and the disc is ripping out of my hand. That sound, combined with the abrasions and callouses forming on my finger pads makes me think I'm getting good rip.

Imagine a disc traveling parallel to the ground. If the disc is nose down then the front edge of the disc (nose) will be slightly lower than the back (tail). This does NOT increase drag nor does it have anything to do with OAT. Just the opposite. A nose down flight is critical for a disc to produce lift. Given enough room, as a disc travels it will gradually drift from a nose down trajectory to a nose up one at the end of it's flight. So if a disc starts nose up you're in effect keeping it from generating the lift it's capable of. This is why your Leo's, Tbirds, and Aviars are all maxing out at the same distance.

Now on to your intended flight paths. The path you should be aiming for is straight out in front of you. It isn't up at all. A Leo or Tbird can be thrown 300' without ever getting more than 6-8' off the ground. And 8' is even pushing it for a T-bird. I've played with guys who can drive a Tbird 350-ish without it ever breaching 5'. So my point is focus on nose down, line drives straight out from your chest. Once you've gained some control of your nose angles then you can start playing around with height.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by Bubbajoe

Now on to your intended flight paths. The path you should be aiming for is straight out in front of you. It isn't up at all. A Leo or Tbird can be thrown 300' without ever getting more than 6-8' off the ground. And 8' is even pushing it for a T-bird. I've played with guys who can drive a Tbird 350-ish without it ever breaching 5'. So my point is focus on nose down, line drives straight out from your chest. Once you've gained some control of your nose angles then you can start playing around with height.

I get what you are saying but just to be clear, desired height is a component of flight path. It's not just left/right.

[dodgeball]

Originally Posted by Bubbajoe

Imagine a disc traveling parallel to the ground. If the disc is nose down then the front edge of the disc (nose) will be slightly lower than the back (tail). This does NOT increase drag nor does it have anything to do with OAT. Just the opposite. A nose down flight is critical for a disc to produce lift. Given enough room, as a disc travels it will gradually drift from a nose down trajectory to a nose up one at the end of it's flight. So if a disc starts nose up you're in effect keeping it from generating the lift it's capable of. This is why your Leo's, Tbirds, and Aviars are all maxing out at the same distance.

Now on to your intended flight paths. The path you should be aiming for is straight out in front of you. It isn't up at all. A Leo or Tbird can be thrown 300' without ever getting more than 6-8' off the ground. And 8' is even pushing it for a T-bird. I've played with guys who can drive a Tbird 350-ish without it ever breaching 5'. So my point is focus on nose down, line drives straight out from your chest. Once you've gained some control of your nose angles then you can start playing around with height.

Good stuff here. I would just add that nose down is more important as the disc gets faster. This is mostly just to counteract the stability of the disc and keep it flying straighter for longer. For mids and putters, it's not as big a factor and a lot of the time a flat release is better.

[Bubbajoe]

Dodgeball your a FHder. What foot do you lead with on shorter shots?

Hedge: Height is important. But without nose angle control its a henderance to BH development. Nose angle is like a rip. It's ABC to the point where most BH advice is given assuming you have it under control.

[CwAlbino]

I lead with the left foot on everything. Just tried leading with the right and it feels awkward, I can't get the body torque like normal. And there isn't any room for my arm to bend.


btw, 7:04 on this video is very close to the form I try to teach. Like in the first post I made.

[jtencer]

The reason your ultimate friends told you to lead with your right is because that's what they're used to. I'm from an ultimate background, and it's what I'm used to as well. The reason is that in ultimate you're required to establish a pivot foot (like in basketball). If you're right-handed, that pivot foot is your left foot which prevents you from leading with your left.

Since so much of FH is in your arm mechanics for shorter throws, this isn't an issue. I can even throw an ultrastar about 50-60 yards this way. It works great and it's what I'm used to so I don't mess with it for approaches.

For distance, you need to get hip rotation. It works better to lead with your left and follow through with your right as your hips swing for distance throws.

[Bubbajoe]

Originally Posted by CwAlbino

I lead with the left foot on everything. Just tried leading with the right and it feels awkward, I can't get the body torque like normal. And there isn't any room for my arm to bend.


btw, 7:04 on this video is very close to the form I try to teach. Like in the first post I made.

This is pretty much the way it felt for me as well. My throws were a little more consistent, but I think that was due to the fact I couldn't put any power behind them except wrist strength. The reason I asked the question here was the advice was given in such an "well obviously you're doing this wrong" kind of way. Most of this I think is due to what jtencer just posted in that it's common form to Ultimate.

Nice example in the vid btw. Who was that? They were a little more upright than some of the better FH throwers I've seen.

[CwAlbino]

Originally Posted by Bubbajoe

This is pretty much the way it felt for me as well. My throws were a little more consistent, but I think that was due to the fact I couldn't put any power behind them except wrist strength. The reason I asked the question here was the advice was given in such an "well obviously you're doing this wrong" kind of way. Most of this I think is due to what jtencer just posted in that it's common form to Ultimate.

Nice example in the vid btw. Who was that? They were a little more upright than some of the better FH throwers I've seen.

That is Big Jerm
http://www.discraft.com/team_koling.html

The first flick to make it across the pond. One of the best pro forehanders. Notice right after that Avery tries, and he failed btw (that's not the long version, I don't know where it's at) and Avery uses a lower more elbow intensive throw. (The one I don't like, and is more harmful on the body)