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  #11  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:28 AM
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I don't play tournies so I am speaking as a casual player. Most courses i have played do not have clear boundaries marked for creeks. where exactly does the creek begin? I (and most players I think) use the it's ok if it's dry rule.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camgolfer View Post
I had a throw at the Westminster DGC that landed on a small island in the middle of the creek. Normally this island is submerged, but being early in the year before all of the mountain snow melt and run off this island was there. Does this throw count as OB or is it good considering it was dry. Maybe some DG rule purists may know the answer to this one.
I think more often than not people declare OB if the disc is surrounded by water. I would think if there is no defined OB line then the creek bank itself is IB. But in your case, being on an island, by definition you are are surrounded by water therefore, OB. The would be true if you landed on a dry rock in the middle of a shallow creek but were dry.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:58 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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In casual play you can, of course, do whatever you and your group wants to.

If you're looking for something more standardized, you'll need to refer to the tee sign (if it is specific enough), or how the permanent features of the course are desginated in tournaments.

Most commonly, creeks are defined as OB if you are within the boundaries of the water itself. If there is water between your disc and the dry shore, you are OB. Even on an island, there is water between you and dry shore, so you're OB. If the disc is touching shore---that is, if an ant can walk to your disc without getting his feet wet---you're OK. And you get 1 meter relief, without penalty, from the water.

In some instances, the "creek and beyond" are designated as OB, so touching dry shore on the far side of the creek is no good, either. The near edge of the water defines OB.

Other definitions, such as the top of the creek bank, are too vague to use. A tournament might use them IF it runs a rope or line along to the top edge of the creek bed, but absent that marker, it's not practical to apply such a rule.

In casual play you're free to define OB more strictly, or more forgivingly. For myself, I choose to define it as it would be in a tournament, other than special areas which are marked by temporary lines only during the tournament.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigd View Post
I think more often than not people declare OB if the disc is surrounded by water. I would think if there is no defined OB line then the creek bank itself is IB. But in your case, being on an island, by definition you are are surrounded by water therefore, OB. The would be true if you landed on a dry rock in the middle of a shallow creek but were dry.
This,, Surrounded by water = OB
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2009, 12:40 PM
jroll jroll is offline
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I would call it OB. any creek at that course is OB if you consider the vertical line rule. over the winter when the creek was frozen I skipped off of the ice and landed on an island. I tried to argue that since my disc wasn't wet it wasn't OB. That was when I first learned about the surrounded by water rule
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:22 PM
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Unfortunately, the "surround by OB" rule is subjective.

Consider an "island hole" often used by many courses. That island green is in play, i.e. not OB.

Alternatively, consider a course that plays roads/streets as OB. The course is in a park that will eventually be completely surrounded by roads, thus making the entire course OB.

If you say water is OB, the entire continent of North America is surrounded by water/OB and every throw we make is OB....

A situation like the one described in the original post should be clarified by course ground rules.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:39 PM
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It is in the creek, which has been designated as OB.

It is OB..... A sand bar that has formed as an island is surrounded by the creek, so it is in the creek and the creek is OB. That may not be there tomorrow or may be submerged, so it is too temporary to be considered NOT OB.

Sorry, I say take the stroke and get a drop at the point where you went out.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:25 PM
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In casual rounds, always agree with friends what you are going to do. At a local course, Giles Run, all of the thorns are marked as OB in tournaments... but because of maintenance issues, flags can't be left up the rest of the time. So when friends and I play, we usually agree to play "tournament OBs" -- which means that if a disc lands in thorns, we take the stroke... if it's on the edge, benefit of the doubt goes to the thrower.

Same applies to water. If you know where the OBs are intended to be -- and WILL BE -- for tournaments, use those boundaries, even if they aren't defined on the course. Playing that way will make you a better player as you learn to control your shots.

If you're playing with beginners or unskilled players, then forget about OB and play it where it lies. It's the decision of the group.

Often, with friends, we'll even make up our own OBs if there are any natural or man-made boundaries that work well... make the course harder than it was designed. This works especially well with "island" teeboxes. If your teeshot has a lot of open space, then a natural boundary (fence, walkway, creek) you have to throw over to get to the hole, make EVERYTHING on the close side of the boundary OB, automatic retee. There are holes designed like this with the rock walls up at Borderlands in MA -- one of the greatest courses ever.

If I ever get the chance to design a course, you are going to bet there will be island tee rules on at least a few holes -- at least from the Blue/Gold tees.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2009, 03:04 PM
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In casual play, (all of my discing) I would still play that, unless your group specifies OB rules. My usual group plays if its dry or if you're willing to throw it (like in thorns), its not out of bounds. This is really relaxed compared to tourney play, but we're more in it for the fun. It's always nice to see a friend sink a 50 foot shot and then walk out of the brush, covered in thorns, but a smile on his face.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERicJ View Post
Unfortunately, the "surround by OB" rule is subjective.

Consider an "island hole" often used by many courses. That island green is in play, i.e. not OB.

Alternatively, consider a course that plays roads/streets as OB. The course is in a park that will eventually be completely surrounded by roads, thus making the entire course OB.

If you say water is OB, the entire continent of North America is surrounded by water/OB and every throw we make is OB....

A situation like the one described in the original post should be clarified by course ground rules.
Exactly. in casual play it comes down to how your group wants to play it and it should be agreed on before you play the hole. For a tournament, hopefully the TD has it carefully marked and/or explained.
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