#3241  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:25 AM
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justin justin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemilemore View Post
The thing I am finding interesting - and this is just an observation, not criticism - is that everyone raves about how MVP is the most consistent company around, but it sounds like they have just as many first run nuances as anyone else.
I see what you mean exactly but I think the consistancy comment is more about discs within a run or later runs. It's so common to see many differently shaped non-first run Innova discs as we all know but you really won't see that with MVP. So let's say they're extremely consistent with non-first runs
  #3242  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:26 AM
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onemilemore onemilemore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin View Post
I see what you mean exactly but I think the consistancy comment is more about discs within a run or later runs. It's so common to see many differently shaped non-first run Innova discs as we all know but you really won't see that with MVP. So let's say they're extremely consistent with non-first runs
Yeah, it definitely seems like they work out the kinks after the first run better than most. They're like the bag companies!
  #3243  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:53 AM
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I wanna take this opportunity to remind y'all that the Volt is exclusively gonna be produced on the most accurate molding machine ever used for golf discs

And for better or worse, the Volt could have come out in July if the highest possible quality and consistency weren't such a priority to these guys. Yeah it made y'all grumble, but (unofficial spokeswords to follow) it took some massive balls and dedication to their company principles to make that decision. Oh hi, disc golf's future, didn't see you there.
  #3244  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:02 PM
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My Neutron Vectors should get here today, so this question may become obsolete for me, but it goes hand in hand with someones earlier post about their Axis getting domier with storage time.

I have two Protons Vectors...one FR clear and one green non first run. They both have more or less the same amount of dome, and the green one is definetly more scratched and beat up. They fly the exact same. This morning, however, I went and played an early morning round. It was cold, about 35 degrees, and I was throwing the heck out of my green Vector as I was playing a very short course. Halfway through the round I noticed that, in the cold, my Vector had somehow become MORE domey. Has anyone else experienced this? My only thought is that the overmold shrank in the cold and domed out the flight plate? Doesn't make much sense to me but here it is 2 hours later and the dome is back to normal after sitting in my nice warm house...

Am I crazy or ia this typical?
  #3245  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJB View Post
My Neutron Vectors should get here today, so this question may become obsolete for me, but it goes hand in hand with someones earlier post about their Axis getting domier with storage time.

I have two Protons Vectors...one FR clear and one green non first run. They both have more or less the same amount of dome, and the green one is definetly more scratched and beat up. They fly the exact same. This morning, however, I went and played an early morning round. It was cold, about 35 degrees, and I was throwing the heck out of my green Vector as I was playing a very short course. Halfway through the round I noticed that, in the cold, my Vector had somehow become MORE domey. Has anyone else experienced this? My only thought is that the overmold shrank in the cold and domed out the flight plate? Doesn't make much sense to me but here it is 2 hours later and the dome is back to normal after sitting in my nice warm house...

Am I crazy or ia this typical?
This makes perfect sense to me...Plastics are hygroscopic (they absorb water). It seems logical (I'm no scientist/engineer, so anyone who knows better please correct me) that the less dense the plastic is, the more water it could absorb. With that in mind, the overmold is denser, so it would absorb less water. You were playing near freezing, so I imagine the water in the proton expanded as it started to freeze. Since it could not expand outward due to the overmold, it expanded upward.

Pro-style plastics are less dense and extremely hygroscopic...I once found a FR XS that someone had lost in a swampy area...It was covered in snow and I kid you not it had a 4" tall dome. I put it in my car and when I got home and went to show it to my roomate it had already returned to normal.
  #3246  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
I wanna take this opportunity to remind y'all that the Volt is exclusively gonna be produced on the most accurate molding machine ever used for golf discs

And for better or worse, the Volt could have come out in July if the highest possible quality and consistency weren't such a priority to these guys. Yeah it made y'all grumble, but (unofficial spokeswords to follow) it took some massive balls and dedication to their company principles to make that decision. Oh hi, disc golf's future, didn't see you there.
Exactly this...And if it had come out in July MVP would have made at least (if not more) as much money as they will when it actually comes out. It was simply their commitment to making the highest quality golf discs that made them(and us) wait. And this is not just naive idealism as they have the confidence that over time more and more people will notice the contrast between them and the big manufacturers.
  #3247  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Ricky_Rick Ricky_Rick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discspeed View Post
This makes perfect sense to me...Plastics are hygroscopic (they absorb water). It seems logical (I'm no scientist/engineer, so anyone who knows better please correct me) that the less dense the plastic is, the more water it could absorb.
I think that statement is a little to all encompassing, as not all Plastics absorb water. There are many formulations that make up the group "plastics", be it polyethylenes, polyurethane, nylons, acetals, phenolics, teflon(R), PVC, ABS, acrylic, polycarbonate, etc... Some do absorb water while others do not.

I would tend to believe it has more to do with the expansion and contraction, which is basically what you said in your conclusion. That certain properties in the selected material are prone to expand and contract with the weather. Has MVP posted what "plastics" they use for the inner and outer molds? From touch n feel, I would guess the inner surface is polyurethane based while the outer ring is more polyethylene based. Any idea if this info is available from MVP?
  #3248  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky_Rick View Post
I think that statement is a little to all encompassing, as not all Plastics absorb water. There are many formulations that make up the group "plastics", be it polyethylenes, polyurethane, nylons, acetals, phenolics, teflon(R), PVC, ABS, acrylic, polycarbonate, etc... Some do absorb water while others do not.

I would tend to believe it has more to do with the expansion and contraction, which is basically what you said in your conclusion. That certain properties in the selected material are prone to expand and contract with the weather. Has MVP posted what "plastics" they use for the inner and outer molds? From touch n feel, I would guess the inner surface is polyurethane based while the outer ring is more polyethylene based. Any idea if this info is available from MVP?
I should have said "plastics that discs are made from" are hygroscopic. Since this is a disc forum I kind of assumed that went without saying.

It was a flag to me that the disc seemed to be expanding around the freezing point of water. Plastics expand and contract with temp for sure, but it would be gradual and not so noticeable as a flat disc having it's dome pop up. This and the other example in my previous posts. I have talked with plastic people/disc manufacturers and this is where I learned this to begin with. Regarding how hygroscopic some disc plastic is, consider this example...My friend bought a FR ESP Nuke and it scaled @ 174g. He threw it in the lake at the local course where it stayed for about a month before it was retrieved and returned to our local Disc shop. The disc felt heavy and the plastic was MUCH softer. The dome was noticeably bigger as well. When we scaled it again it weighed 178. He let it sit for a couple weeks in his AC and it was back to 174.

Both of MVP's plastics are polyurethane, the overmold just has a weighting agent. They have yet to find a way to mold plastics from two different families together as they don't bond strong enough chemically(not to mention have different hygroscopic and expansion/contraction properties).

Last edited by discspeed; 10-05-2012 at 02:18 PM.
  #3249  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:30 PM
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kingjames1014 kingjames1014 is offline
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Sorry, but i don't feel like scrolling back 15-20 pages.
I assume the neutron plastic will grip better than proton in the winter, correct?
I plan on getting an Ion and Vector in neutron soon...very soon.
 

  #3250  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingjames1014 View Post
Sorry, but i don't feel like scrolling back 15-20 pages.
I assume the neutron plastic will grip better than proton in the winter, correct?
I plan on getting an Ion and Vector in neutron soon...very soon.
Yep, it's a bit grippier, and softer than Proton. It should be money in colder weather.
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