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  #3511  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:56 PM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
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Why would having a bead make a disc more affected by OAT? That makes zero sense to me, and all of the years I've been playing and reading forums, I've never once heard that.

An individual might be particularly bad, for some reason, at throwing beaded discs, but that's a different thing.
  #3512  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:02 PM
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discspeed discspeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve a View Post
The anode is not necessarily beadless. It has the same bead as the ion but the nose covers more of it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve a View Post
If the anode and ion share the same core how would a different overmold shape cause less oat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve a View Post
It is the same height and feels the same in the hand. Just because the overmold covers it does not mean it is a smaller bead. If it is true though, how does the overmold shape causes more or less oat?

Looking at things in terms of overmold/core really confuses this. Just look at the side profile of the Ion and Anode and pretend they were one plastic, because aerodynamically they may as well be. Whatever is covered up by the overmold never has air moving across it to affect the flight. So as far as flight is concerned the Ion has a bigger bead.

I'm not going to go into why beads make discs more affected by OAT unless someones asks because I don't think that is what Steve was questioning.

BTW Steve---Maybe I'm crazy, but I swear I read somewhere on some MVP thread today that you wished Vectors were still as overstable as the first runs(if not you it was someone). I have pink/crimson Vectors with both black and eclipse overmolds that are moderately domey and match the overstability of the first runs.
  #3513  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discspeed View Post
I'm not going to go into why beads make discs more affected by OAT unless someones asks because I don't think that is what Steve was questioning.
This was all I was asking. I understand why they fly different but I am wondering why they release different when you are essentially holding onto the exact same piece. That's what has me confused.
  #3514  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:46 PM
rocthecourse rocthecourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discspeed View Post
I'm not going to go into why beads make discs more affected by OAT unless someones asks because I don't think that is what Steve was questioning.
I'm curious why.
  #3515  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:49 PM
steve a steve a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discspeed View Post
BTW Steve---Maybe I'm crazy, but I swear I read somewhere on some MVP thread today that you wished Vectors were still as overstable as the first runs(if not you it was someone). I have pink/crimson Vectors with both black and eclipse overmolds that are moderately domey and match the overstability of the first runs.
wasn't me
  #3516  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve a View Post
This was all I was asking. I understand why they fly different but I am wondering why they release different when you are essentially holding onto the exact same piece. That's what has me confused.
You are simply talking release mechanics, I see now. In that case, don't you notice the difference in feel between beaded and non-beaded discs? When I grip a disc my forefinger curls around the bottom edge of the disc with the fingertip nestled up in the nexus of the rim and flightplate. With beadless discs my forefinger clamps up flush against the whole bottom of the disc giving me a very clean and secure feel to my grip. With beaded discs, especially tall discs like putters, my forefinger is not flush with the whole bottom of the disc because the bead is protruding. I don't have contact with as much surface area as there is a small gap on either side of the bead. This grip does not feel as clean and secure to me. Beyond that, when I rip a beadless disc it comes out smooth because the bottom is smooth and flush in my grip, where a beaded disc literally drags the bead across my finger when I rip making it feel worse and making OAT far more possible.

BTW, I have slender fingers so they just don't just clamp down on any shape like people with bigger hands/fatter fingers may be able to.
  #3517  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocthecourse View Post
I'm curious why.
The bead makes the disc much less aerodynamic. Air can move down the wing smoothly and then it hits the bead which adds drag. When the disc is spinning perfectly on axis this drag is minimized as air flows down the wing and across the bead with a little gap in air flow in the tiny space in front of the bead (which is why beaded discs still FLY almost as well as nonbeaded discs). When you throw the beaded disc with OAT the disc is not spinning smoothly with the leading edge of the disc bobbing up and down slightly. This gives the air a lot more chance to catch the bead and makes it hard for the spin to right itself. A beadless discs offers much less resistance so that OAT can iron itself out quicker.

Maybe someone smarter than me will tell me I got some details wrong, but I'm pretty confident in the basics of my premise.
  #3518  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:57 PM
rocthecourse rocthecourse is offline
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That makes enough sense for me. I've noticed that my Ion never just turns a little from OAT, it turns A LOT. Add in some headwind and it gets really bad.
  #3519  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:30 AM
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pspunch pspunch is offline
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this discussion almost blames the disc for OAT. If other people can throw the disc with no OAT, then it's not the discs fault. OAT is always the fault of the thrower, and more specifically, their grip. i'm not trying to target anyone specific with this statement, so don't get offended or come back on me like i'm being a jerk. But if you have OAT, you are best to own it, blame yourself, then fix what's causing it and move on. it's the same as any other fault, totally correctable once you identify the root cause.

/end OAT rant.

i like the ion
 

  #3520  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:43 AM
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The reason it's a little harder to own your OAT with MVP discs is that you can have just a little OAT (no visible wobble) and it translates into the flight without giving you any clear indicators. This has happened to me to a small degree every time I've gotten a new mold from MVP...They act a bit more understable for me initially before I really get used to the grip/release feel and then start coming off 100% clean and become more stable. I think a lot of people have a micro amount of OAT in their release and don't realize it as well, and for these people MVP discs will always be less stable. To be honest this is what I think is one of the main differences between really skilled throwers and average throwers...A clean high spin release. This puts the magic on a disc and brings out the best characteristics and minimizes the weaknesses.
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