DX versus Champion

[tamahawk]

Originally Posted by disc golfer

You need to put a bit of hyzer on them, which I hate doing.

You are referring to the hyzer-flip shot, throwing an understable disc with hyzer and letting it flip flat, or flip up and turn over. Don't hate this shot, love it! Work with it a bit, and I think you'll grow to really like the hyzer-flip. The more of these I throw, and the better I get at throwing it, the more I really like this shot.

Back on topic:
For me, both plastics have their own application. For me, DX plastic is great for mid-range discs, and Champion is great for drivers and fairway drivers. One exception for me is the Valkerie, I really like the Valk in DX, that disc in that plastic works really well for me.

[Ryan P.]

I know you guys love your champion plastic, but I can't stand it. The grip is too inconsistent. I know DX beats in way way way too fast, but, the grip is incredible on those discs. for putters and mids that don't hit many trees, I would much rather have that "crap".

[Omega SuperSloth]

try star if you dont like the grip of champ its almost as durable , ive heard pro has the best grip next to dx but it seems to be about the same quality as dx .

[Omega SuperSloth]

my local p.i.a.s. has alot of x-out star and champ cheaper than the box stores sell dx so it really dosnt make since for me to buy even a throw away disc in dx .

[80playedin10states]

wow ...dx is crap? tell climo his roc and aviars are crap..maybe you hit too many things with them, then they ARE crap?

[garublador]

It's all about choosing your molds correctly and getting a cycle going. If you do it right you end up spending less on discs that last longer and fly better.

You want to choose discs that start off too overstable to fly straight when thrown from a bit of a hyzer. They'll beat into straight, stay that way for a long time and eventually become awesome turnover discs. If you start with something straight from the beginning it will probably break into something squirrley, regardless of plastic.

If you have a few discs you are cycling each one will see less action and beat slower. Your most used version will probably be the one that's in a pretty stable stage both flight wise and wear wise. Each of your discs will cost 1/2-2/3 of the price of a high end disc, last a long time and the beat ones will be easier to control and fly further than if you were throwing the more expensive discs.

Granted this works the best for putters, mids and fairway drivers (pro level players don't tend to do it with fairway drivers, but most of them did at one point and they're good enough to not need it), so it won't apply to your whole bag, but anyone who's really put the time into doing this sort of thing will see the benefits in disc selection and technique improvement.

[madrast]

I like DX plastic. It beats in quickly and it's cheap.

For those who say it's not durable, I disagree. At first DX plastic can seem stiff and unforgiving when it hits something, but over time I've noticed that my most seasoned DX discs are very soft and absorb tree hits much much better than when they were new. I have a 172g Roc that I can literally fold in half just like Discraft's FLX plastic. They also glide forever and you can put them on any line you want.

It seems to me that a lot of the new plastic (Champion, R-Pro, etc.) tries to mimic the feel you get when you have a well seasoned disc in DX plastic.

[SomeChump]

Originally Posted by disc golfer

Yes, I mean understable. The DX Valk and Viking have a high speed turn to them and come back nicely. But the Champ versions seem to just crash and burn. You need to put a bit of hyzer on them, which I hate doing.

I have noticed that the Champion Leopard and Panther fly more overstable than their DX versions, so you're correct there.

I think you're wrong. MY champ valk is much more stable than MY dx valk and it is even a few grams lighter. Maybe you have a weird one or a much lighter one or something...

[Rbuzz9]

i understand the use of softer plastic for putters the wear an tear of putting wont be so drastic and wont alter the flight much even after extensive use. But for anything else why not get a disc in a plastic that's gonna fly the same after repeated use and if you happen to lose it, its exact replacement will fly just the same?

Cycling discs seems like putting too much thought into the process.

[garublador]

Originally Posted by Rbuzz9

i understand the use of softer plastic for putters the wear an tear of putting wont be so drastic and wont alter the flight much even after extensive use. But for anything else why not get a disc in a plastic that's gonna fly the same after repeated use and if you happen to lose it, its exact replacement will fly just the same?

Cycling discs seems like putting too much thought into the process.

There are a few assumptions you have to accept to understand why low end plastic is used.

1. All discs beat in. If someone made a truly indestructable plastic it would be a major scientific breakthrough.

2. If you look at the way a disc beats in, it will beat sorta quickly at first and then slow way down so that it doesn't change flight much for a long time. After that it gets gradually more understable at a fairly slow rate.

3. If you observe how discs in high end plastic beat compared to how discs in low end plastic beat you'll find that the high end discs tend to loose HSS faster than LSS. The low end discs will loose LSS faster than HSS.

4. In general, and this applies even more to discs that come recommended in low end plastics, you'll find that the high end discs start off more overstable, meaning you have to pick a more understable mold to get a good flight when new.

5. Not all low end discs beat in fast. Some do, the ones I'm talking about (putters, stable mids, stable fairway/control drivers) don't. The wear is gradual.

What all that means is that if you pick a disc in a high end plastic you'll have to pick on that's either too overstable to be controlled well and then wait for it to get beat up (which most people agree it takes a decent amount time to beat high end discs), or one that flies well when new and have it get squirrley when it does beat in (which will generally happen faster with discs that don't start off overstable). That makes replacing a beat version of the first type I mentioned extremely difficult and replacing a beat version of the latter necessary no matter whether you lose it or not.

It also means that the beat versions won't fly nearly as well as beat versions of low end discs. Losing HSS means that discs tend to get squirrley easier and it makes anhyzers and turnovers more diffcult because the disc still wants to fade out. Losing LSS means straighter flights with the disc still being controlable because the HSS is predictable.

Also, how many threads are there about the flight differences between colors and runs of high end discs? How many are there about the flight differences between colors or runs of DX Teebirds or DX Rocs? There just seems to be less variation in runs of the lower end discs. That means that when buying a new one you'll have a lot better chance of the disc flying how you expect without having to find a certain run.

Cycling discs isn't as hard to manage as you'd think. As long as you keep a backup or two of the discs in the best stages of wear there won't be a shot you can't perform. Plus, getting discs to that stage means you'll know the disc really well by the time it gets to that point.