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Old 09-30-2011, 07:51 PM
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OOB Theory

Probably not the place to ask but here goes.....taking safety concerns etc out of the equation...do you believe oob should merely be used to punish bad shots or should it be added to add an element of challenge to a hole. I ask because at times oob seems to actually punish good shots or cause players of all skill levels to play so conservatively that it actually bunches the skill levels/scores together.

Moraine and Idlewild come to mind
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:57 PM
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I think it depends on the course. Some courses need all the ob it can get or it would be no fun. Jimmy Porter comes to mind along with LL Woods here. If you didnt play sidewalk/creek and beyond ob, it would be nothing but a birdie fest and would require no thought and no execution of any shots at all. Now when designers or cities put a pin within 10feet of a pin, that crosses a line in my opinion. There is no reason to throw a great shot, (drive, upshot, or putt) and be ob when all you have to do is a simple drop in for a stroke anyways.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:08 PM
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Veterans Park in Sylmar, CA is probably Los Angeles's most difficult course. Recently, they added the rule 'all concrete oob.' Some holes it makes sense on, but several of them just have paths randomly meandering across them, and its just a stroke of luck whether or not you land on them.

It does not add an element of challenge to the hole.
It does not punish bad shots.
It does not make the hole any 'safer.'

Just, sometimes, you happen to get an OB on your score card and sometimes you don't. I think if you purposely ADD oob to a course, it should be purely to shape a shot or punish an obnoxiously bad throw. So to answer your question (outside of safety)....both?
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:08 PM
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I guess I am referring to holes where the oob really should not come into play unless you make an awful throw vs oob that is placed precariously close to a basket or landing zone with no real option but to take your chances.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:20 PM
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I think your question is far too general to give an explanation to; as it is more of a case by case scenario.

I personally think the order of priority for OOB should be:

1. Safety (benches, people, cars, homes, blah)

2. Punishing OVER throwing. People who cannot reach the pin typically do not need additional penalty, i.e. a lake in front of the pin. Having a fence or lake or oob in general AFTER the pin is a better learning tool. This forces a newer or even experienced player to learn placement as opposed to always throwing the crap out of the disc.

3. Punishing throws in the wrong direction (fences, roads)

4. Occasional gimmicks (i.e. an island shot on an otherwise easy hole)
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:22 PM
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all concrete oob but the hole still plays over it...why not just say any hit pedestrians is "stroke and distance"...seems to make more sense if you are gonna have people throw at walking paths etc.

Moraine has these somewhat random drainage half pipes (maybe 18 inches wide) that are all over the course and seem very random to a first timer. I had some great shots that simply landed in these little pipey things and it ruined a few of my better moments.

No course has tougher OOB added considering the already difficulty of the course than Idlewild...pure madness and I hated it...I am sure it makes the locals better players but I'm sure some great players really have issues with it when they get plinked into some manufactured oob 10 feet from the basket.

I understand the need to add challenge but should we be rewarding good luck and punishing bad luck? Or convincing players to play safe and add strokes and bunch up the scoring instead of giving players a chance to gain a stroke. I am in the camp that oob should punish the bad shots and add strokes to the scorecards on those who mess up or dont have the ability to avoid oob. (early hyzer out into a stream/cant throw 330 footer pond so they lay up before it and take a stroke rather than gain the circle 2 strokes......I guess I am thinking that oob is not really thought out too much and I think it should be given more thought by designers
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger View Post
I think your question is far too general to give an explanation to; as it is more of a case by case scenario.

I personally think the order of priority for OOB should be:

1. Safety (benches, people, cars, homes, blah)

2. Punishing OVER throwing. People who cannot reach the pin typically do not need additional penalty, i.e. a lake in front of the pin. Having a fence or lake or oob in general AFTER the pin is a better learning tool. This forces a newer or even experienced player to learn placement as opposed to always throwing the crap out of the disc.

3. Punishing throws in the wrong direction (fences, roads)

4. Occasional gimmicks (i.e. an island shot on an otherwise easy hole)
I meant to keep it general as I am trying to get people to think about and justify when/why they use oob...I like your ideas
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:30 PM
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not a fan of arbitrary ob. imho ob should be used to punish bad shots or create challenge to an otherwise easy situation: ie an island green, created by rope or some such, in the middle of an open field.
and yes, idlewild comes to mind- brutal without the added ob.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger View Post
I think your question is far too general to give an explanation to; as it is more of a case by case scenario.

I personally think the order of priority for OOB should be:

1. Safety (benches, people, cars, homes, blah)

2. Punishing throws in the wrong direction (fences, roads)

3. Occasional gimmicks (i.e. an island shot on an otherwise easy hole)

4. Punishing OVER throwing. People who cannot reach the pin typically do not need additional penalty, i.e. a lake in front of the pin. Having a fence or lake or oob in general AFTER the pin is a better learning tool. This forces a newer or even experienced player to learn placement as opposed to always throwing the crap out of the disc.
^Fixed for my opinion. Overthrowing is only a problem on shorter, open holes. I tend to not play courses that have lots of holes like that. Wooded holes tend to punish for overthrowing naturally, goes w/o saying.
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