Designer Advice for Public Parks

[MacDaddy]

Originally Posted by optidiscic

The Best championship courses are not set in a multi use area of a park. You said the area traverses walking trails and a multi use park. I'm confused. The great courses you mention are not near other parkgoers. Those great courses took the imagination of someone traversing unused raw land and visualizing a course. Often in unused or unuseable areas of a park.

This is exactly correct. The multi-use park area where disc golf is the johnny-come-lately will have to be the rec/intermediate level park course (you can still tweek it to optimize the fun factor). The championship level course should be away from other activities. In fact, the better our equipment gets, and the better our players get, the more it demands that the courses of this type will be pay-to-play at some level. If you need and demand that courses use larger areas of land and provide more amenities, there has to be some type of payment to keep it going.

[Stud Muffin]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy

This is exactly correct. The multi-use park area where disc golf is the johnny-come-lately will have to be the rec/intermediate level park course (you can still tweek it to optimize the fun factor). The championship level course should be away from other activities. In fact, the better our equipment gets, and the better our players get, the more it demands that the courses of this type will be pay-to-play at some level. If you need and demand that courses use larger areas of land and provide more amenities, there has to be some type of payment to keep it going.

I got an idea.
How about the city use tax payer money to buy the baskets, land donated or set aside for public use, and the park maintenance crew cuts the grass, while volunteers do the little things that makes parks great.

Wait... what would the money be used for then?

[deBebbler]

Originally Posted by optidiscic

.....you have to think about spray zones of the worst possible players on the worst possible day with the worst possible conditions and imagine people in places you just cant imagine them being.

Don't ever assume beginners or "chuckers" have common sense because they don't and will get your course pulled.

^^this

Look at each hole and think of the sh!ttiest throws you can concieve. If the hole can absorb the throw without endangering anyone, keep it; otherwise ditch it and look elsewhere.

Whatever terrible throw you think of will be 'bested' by someone in reality.

If you want some challenging distances but lack the land, you could go with three challenging tees and fewer holes. If the design is quality, you won't mind repeating them from different tee sets.

[MacDaddy]

Originally Posted by Stud Muffin

I got an idea.
How about the city use tax payer money to buy the baskets, land donated or set aside for public use, and the park maintenance crew cuts the grass, while volunteers do the little things that makes parks great.

Wait... what would the money be used for then?

Everybody's got their hand out. The city/county/state should buy me this, or buy me that. The facts are that the vast majority of govts have had their budgets cut, parks departments especially, and some by large amounts. Programs cancelled, facilities closed and employees let go. I put in 6 new courses this year and only one of them was "fully paid for" by the parks dept, and only 1 other had ANY cash in the game. The rest were all paid for by private funding.

Every other sport you can think of pays their own way with some sort of dues, fees, etc. But disc golfers think they are special and everything is "free". HA! Wake up and smell the budget cuts. If you want a championship caliber disc golf course and the things that go with it, then you should pay for it, plain and simple. Everybody wants more disc golf on TV, in the schools, blah, blah, blah. So who is going to do it? Having disc golf "pros" implies by definition that someone is making money doing it. If your course pro, truely is, then he should be our there teaching and running a pro shop and maintianing the course. And that costs money. There are lots of vendors that operate various activites on govt land, disc golf should be doing it too.

I am NOT saying that all courses should be pay-to-play. That would be insane, and cut off the flow of new players into the game. But the upper end of disc golf has to realize that the free ride is over and start pulling their own weight. And if all the stuff we have been preaching over the years about disc golf being green and low cost are true, then it shouldn't be a problem.

[Thumber]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy

I am NOT saying that all courses should be pay-to-play. That would be insane, and cut off the flow of new players into the game. But the upper end of disc golf has to realize that the free ride is over and start pulling their own weight. And if all the stuff we have been preaching over the years about disc golf being green and low cost are true, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I agree with you that DG isn't free. I do wonder how it is that no ball golf courses are free and yet they get new people all the time.

The myth that DG is free is just that, a myth. If you are playing for free and not having to do any maintenance then your course is being subsidized from somewhere else. Likely the public purse.

Pay 2 play is the future of our sport and the only model with any sort of sustainability worked into it.

[scarpfish]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy

Everybody's got their hand out. The city/county/state should buy me this, or buy me that. The facts are that the vast majority of govts have had their budgets cut, parks departments especially, and some by large amounts. Programs cancelled, facilities closed and employees let go. I put in 6 new courses this year and only one of them was "fully paid for" by the parks dept, and only 1 other had ANY cash in the game. The rest were all paid for by private funding.

Every other sport you can think of pays their own way with some sort of dues, fees, etc. But disc golfers think they are special and everything is "free". HA! Wake up and smell the budget cuts. If you want a championship caliber disc golf course and the things that go with it, then you should pay for it, plain and simple. Everybody wants more disc golf on TV, in the schools, blah, blah, blah. So who is going to do it? Having disc golf "pros" implies by definition that someone is making money doing it. If your course pro, truely is, then he should be our there teaching and running a pro shop and maintianing the course. And that costs money. There are lots of vendors that operate various activites on govt land, disc golf should be doing it too.

I am NOT saying that all courses should be pay-to-play. That would be insane, and cut off the flow of new players into the game. But the upper end of disc golf has to realize that the free ride is over and start pulling their own weight. And if all the stuff we have been preaching over the years about disc golf being green and low cost are true, then it shouldn't be a problem.

^ THIS

[BionicRib]

Well put Mac Daddy.......pay to play is the future, but a lot of those who have "been around" for a while are strongly against pay to play. "Disc golf should be free" is what I hear a lot from people in my area........I firmly believe that right now we are on the precipice of pay to play becoming main stream. For those of you who have developed or are developing these types of courses.......Keep on pushing..........Pay to play (only if the course is worthy) is the way to go!!!!



On a side note about those who complain about parks that need work or need a new design etc etc.....Get out there and make it happen. It seems that disc golf has a lot of critics who just sit on the sideline. Because the sport is so new people need to realize that courses don't get put up for nothing.......(even crappy courses cost money and time).....and if they don't generate any sort of revenue maintenance also costs money and time.............................................. .....................Stop complaining and do something about it!!!!

[MacDaddy]

Disc golf should be free. And disc golf should be pay-to-play. They both need each other to grow. The free, 9-hole rec courses that need to be scattered everywhere, feed into the larger, fewer (still free) 18-hole public courses that are pretty much the standard of today. But then there needs to be a class of courses that are large enough (par 4 and 5 holes, 27+ holes) that are pay-to-play. These courses can support pro shops, offer merchandise, food and beverages and will be more attactive to more mainstream companies (food and beverage, clothing) to sponsor disc golf.

And hey, if I can go play on a purpose dedicated, championship caliber disc golf course, get a burger and a beer while I play, and do it for a $5/day greens fee? Sign me up!

[DiscGolfer947]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy

Disc golf should be free. And disc golf should be pay-to-play. They both need each other to grow. The free, 9-hole rec courses that need to be scattered everywhere, feed into the larger, fewer (still free) 18-hole public courses that are pretty much the standard of today. But then there needs to be a class of courses that are large enough (par 4 and 5 holes, 27+ holes) that are pay-to-play. These courses can support pro shops, offer merchandise, food and beverages and will be more attactive to more mainstream companies (food and beverage, clothing) to sponsor disc golf.

And hey, if I can go play on a purpose dedicated, championship caliber disc golf course, get a burger and a beer while I play, and do it for a $5/day greens fee? Sign me up!

BINGO!