New course in Batavia IL?

[Cgkdisc]

While it's good to have multiple eyes developing a design, it works best if one person is the designer and the additional helpers are editors advising and helping tweak each design draft. It doesn't work well when everyone helping is starting with "a blank piece of paper" to develop the initial design.

[BionicRib]

too many chiefs and not enough Indians?

[Cgkdisc]

Not so much Indians but a team of assistant chiefs to keep the chief on the best paths.

[MacDaddy]

Originally Posted by BionicRib

I won't give out the information as to where this course is being put in, but I would like to make a comment that if it is being put in without consulting other "experience designers" (i use that term loosely) It would be a bit frusterating to see another new poorly designed course go up in Northern Illinois. IM me if you need help gathering volunteers as I have a panel of eager young designers that are willing to offer their services free of charge.

When I asked the question of if they were designing the course for free, what is the parks dept receiving? Are your eager designers selling themselves too cheap and in turn giving a lower impression of our sport to the industry it serves. After all, if they paid nothing for something, what is it worth. That is all too often the feeling of various parks depts and it leads to some types of course killing behaviour by the parks dept (as you included in your rant). Say maybe moving that signature-hole basket and changing it from the best hole on the course to a joke, or planting half a dozen pine trees in the middle of a fairway (and yeah, the designers name is still on it and everyone thinks that they are an idiot). So to some extent, good or bad, the designer does "own it" even years later.
I don't know how the local disc politics works where you live, but my goal, as an experienced designer, is always to work with local golfers during the design and installation of the course, and to help them establish their own relationship with the local parks dept and community. Because many of the places that I put courses in, do not have one, and there is little experience on how to do it. And that also includes running their own leagues and tourneys and selling plastic. I'm really not interested, nor could I drive the miles and hours/days required to do it!
Yes, every designer gets a start somewhere. So did I (1992, Brookside Park). But I didn't go out the very first time and do an entire course, from pitching it, funding it, designing it and building it, by myself. I learned from someone else who had already done it. And as a member of the PDGA Course Designers Group, I have pledged to help other players become designers by sharing my information and experiences, whether I am the lead designer or just a helping hand.
Check your meds dude! Sounds like you have had some bad experiences with course design in your area. You should give me a call!

[BionicRib]

I agree completely, but a few designers in my area wouldn't agree with your two cents mac daddy.......They would rather grab hold of a project and not let anybody else in. A lot of territorial disputes in Illinois.....its annoying because if everybody just sat down and worked together much more would get accomplished. Also I have pitched the idea of paying for a "experienced designer" and unfortunately the park doesn't want to go that route. Im just trying to do what I can to make sure its not another piece of land with a lot of potential that gets messed up......thats all......I'm not looking for fame and fortune, just an awesome course thats 5 minutes away from my house.....(any avid disc golfers dream)

[kevdiv48]

Have you contacted the designers of Jericho Lake and Eagle Ridge? Those are two quality courses that are definitely better than your average Chicagoland course. Midwest Disc Golf was a bit disappointing with the underwhelming Links at Wheeler Park, but they might have some positive insight on a course in Batavia. Just my 2 cents, I am excited either way that a course will be put in B town.

[BionicRib]

Ive spoke with some guys from there, but everytime I ask for help nobody shows up.......

[MacDaddy]

Everyone wants a course right around the corner. I just got one 1.5 miles away! And yeah, we have some stinky politics around here too, it sucks.
What you talked about with the parks dept is exactly what I was trying to make a point about earlier. What is with parks depts not wanting to invest anything, in paying for a designer to work on their course. Can you point to any other thing in a park that they did not pay a designer to work on? They just don't get that it can save thenm a lot in the long run and make their course more attractive to both local and out-of-town players. And we as disc golfers often contribute to the problem and the parks perception that they don't have to pay anything, because we are so eager to get courses in that there is always a golfer somewhere who will do it for free. And that is fine if you only ever do that one course. But how do (potential or new) designers get beter if they only ever do the one course? And if you are doing mulitple courses over many years, you find out that you just can't do them all for free! Kind of a catch 22 situation. Perhpas the locals in your area could raise some cash (even $500 is great) to get a true "experineced designer to at least come in and look at the land and the potential layout. Good luck!

[BionicRib]

I mean lets be honest, some great courses have been designed by those with very little to no experience with design. If the parks department does their homework its not that hard to figure that out. And like you said those who have no design experience wouldn't be able to get through it without having a mentor at some or most points during the whole project

[412Disc]

Interesting. I'll be traveling to Indiana next year, perhaps I'll play there