#71  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:57 PM
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E_Rock25 E_Rock25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The problem comes in when you deliberately increase the existing fluke factor with design elements that will increase fluke percentages. If anything, the design elements should attempt to reduce or maintain the existing fluke factor percentages inherent in the game.
I can agree with that. I will be using barriers for most of the roll-away greens because of erosion anyway. I just wanted to have the discussion and see where it went. If you look at the diagram I did you can see that there would really be know way for a disc to go down the big hill. I still think the chance of a bad roll adds to the game but understand where you are coming from. IMO chance can even he playing feild a bit sometimes. Bad brakes are part of life and must be accounted for. I do get pissed when I get a bad roll but it makes me want to be a better putter so I don't miss as much. Thanks Cgk
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  #72  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:10 PM
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atay87 atay87 is online now
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Hole #2 at Renaissance in Charlotte. The most risk/reward green I've played. It was cool to see, but from where I was, I had to lay up which is always boring.

You can also see hole #18 in background which you have to throw across the ravine to get to.
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  #73  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:13 PM
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E_Rock25 E_Rock25 is offline
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WOW that is a nasty green....
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  #74  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:24 PM
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Not sure I agree CgK. If you hit the basket with an approach shot and it rills away then you threw a bad approach shot. Approach shots should never hit the basket. If you were running the basket and it kicks out and rolls away then that is because the player made the conscious decision to run the basket with the knowledge that roll-aways are quite possible in the case of failure to convert.

When a player is 50+ away on a sloped green they should be forced to make the decision of going for it or laying up. Getting punished for making a poor run attempt is part of the strategy of the game. The randomness of the roll away is part of the game and needs to be factored into player decision making.
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  #75  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:32 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Big difference in the frequency an approach shot hits a basket versus a putt. Also, for an approach you're implying you're not trying to throw in the basket, but usually you're trying to sink a putt.

Last edited by Cgkdisc; 11-02-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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  #76  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:37 PM
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Thumber - I have to agree with you but also see Chuck's point. It is a fine line. Like I said before though life isn't always fair.
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  #77  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Here's how NOT to do it:


This is from behind the basket looking back down the fairway (the tee is just behind-and-right of that big conifer on the right, and it's a really short hole--like most at this course--so it's essentially a hyzer approach shot). The bush is literally growing into the basket, so the whole front side is inaccessible (the two-dimensionality and angle of this shot doesn't really convey how much of the target area this affects, but it's substantial). Being less than 150', your best shot is to overshoot the hole for a deuce, but landing short--and obviously "running at it"--pretty much guarantee a 3. While it's good to punish a bad shot by eliminating that comeback deuce, this is entirely the wrong way to do it IMO...and I hope the veteran designers involved in this discussion would agree with that assessment.
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  #78  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:45 PM
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Call me nuts, but I've always liked the fact that when making a run on the basket, one of the biggest hazard spots for a roll away happens to be the very thing that surrounds the spot where you ultimately want to get the disc.

If some players are unsettled by this risk, they should just lay up.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:54 PM
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Have you considered making a pseudo-island hole with a ring of rocks or other objects? In other words, there is no hazard like water, but the area outside the ring is defined "out of bounds"? If you've got a professional landscaper involved, they might could find an interesting way to set that up. Again, don't go crazy, but in the right spot it could add a fun element. We did this on hole 1 at my home course. You can't really see it in this photo, but the basket on the left, where the twosome in the photo are approaching, has been surrounded by a ~40' diameter ring of rocks that is considered an "island" when shooting at the "silver basket" inside it, and is considered a "pond" when shooting at the longer "gold" basket to the right of and beyond the trees in the middle of the screen. Notice that there are trees inside the putting circle at both baskets.

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  #80  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhgonzo View Post
Here's how NOT to do it:
Agreed. There is a course called Big Buckeye that has the same setup for hole #17 except using a Telephone Pole instead of the bush, and it is on a slope.
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